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Full text of "The svmme and svbstance of the conference which it pleased His Excellent Majestie : to have with the Lords Bishops and others of his clergie (at which the most of the Lords of the Councell were present) in his Majesties Privie-chamber at Hampton Court, Ianu. 14, 1603"

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S  V  M   M  E 



Which  it  pleaied  his  excellent: 

Majcftie  to  have  with  the  Lords  Bifhops^and 
ochersof  his  Clergie  (at  which  the  moft  oFthe      % 
Lords  of  the  CounccU  were  prefcnt )  in  his 
Majefties  Privie-Chambcr ,  at 

Hampton  Cof^f^-  ii^nn,  i^.  160}- 

Contracted  by  William    Barlow, 

Dodor  of  Divinity,  andDeancof  Chefler, 

wheremto  Are  added  fo me  Copies  (fcattered 
abroad)  nnfuvory^and  untrne. 

Imprinted  by  JoHNNoRTON,and  are  to  bee  fold  by 



To  the  Rea  Jer. 

His  Qoppy  of  the  Confe- 
rence in  ianuary  laFi^ 
hath  leene  long  exjjc- 
Bedy  and  long  Jtnce  it 
"^as  finijhed  .  /;«= 
peachments ,  of  the  di-  canw?u' 
"Vutging  ft>ere  many  •  fH^o  maine  aboue  the 
reHione ,  his  unfmiely  death y  ^hofirH  im-> 
pojed  it,  '^ith^hom  is  buried  tht 
famoujefl  glory  of  our  Englifli  Qmrch^and 
themoUKtndeincouragment  topaines  and 
fludy  :  A  man  happy  in  his  life  and 
death  gloved  ofthebeft  while  he  Hved^ 
and  heard  of  God  for  his  decea^  moft 
earneftly  defiring,  not  many  dayes  be- 
fore he  was  ftroken^  that  he  might  not 

A  1  (yet) 

To  the  Reader. 

(yet)  live  to  ftc  this  Parliament,  as  neare 
as  it  was. 

Tf:>e  other  p  ctn  expectation  of  this  late 

■   Comitiall  Conference ,  muchthreatned 
beforehand  triumphed  in  by  many  j  as  if  that 
Regall  and  moH  honorable  proceeding, 
Jhould  thereby  haVe  received  his  counter- 
blaft^/or  being  too  forward  Sut  his  Maje^ 
fties  Conftancy  haVmg^by  the  laft,  added 
comfort ^andftrength  to  thisformer^  which 
now ^at  length ^comesabroad,fherem^  good 
Reader  ^  thou  may  eft  both  fee  thoje  huge 
pretended  Scandals  (  for  which  ourflouri^ 
Jhing  Qhurch  hath  beenefo  long  difturhed  ) 
objeBed  and  romoVed  ^  and  loithall^  behold 
the  expreffe  and  yiye  Image  of  a  moft  lear* 
ned  and  judicious  IQng  :  whofe  manifold. 
gifts  o/'Grace  and  Nature ,  myfcant  meac 
Jure  of  gift  is  not  able  to  delineate^  nor  am  I 
willing  to  enumerate ,  hecaufe  Ihanje  eVer 
accounted  the  perfonall  commendation  of 

•  liYingRinces/w  men  of  our  forts  ^a  yerball 
Symonie  •  Such  Flies  there  are  too  many, 
which puffe  the  skin^  but  taint  thefleJh.His 


To  the  Reader. 

ifajefties  humble  deportment  in  thofefuUts 
mities ,  will  he  the  eterm:^ng  of  his  memoa 
rie :  the  rather  ^becauje  ts^r^rt^'  tip  c\cc,,  to  di^ 
geftfb  great  Felicity  without  furfet  of 
furcjuedryis  ^  virtue ;,  rare  hi g)  eat perjo^ 
nages^and  that,  which  the  t\tng  of  Heaven 
feared ,  e^^en  the  f\Jng  of  hts  oivne  choke 
would  want,  Tlje  more  eminent  he  is^in  all 
princely  qualities  ^  the  happier flM II  we  be : 
our  dutie^  as  we  are  Chrftians^is  Prayer/or 
him;as  weareSubjeBsf)hcditncc  to  him; 
as  we  are  men,  acknowledgment  of  our 
fetled  ftatem  Inm  ;  Qur  unthankfulncfje 
may  remove  him  as  it  did  the  tnirror  of^rau 
ces^our  late  famous  Elizabeth.  She 
refts  l^pith  God  ^  the  Vhcenixof  her  apes 
reignes  oyer  us  ^  and  long  may  he  jo  doe  to 
Gods  glory  ^and  the  Churches  good  j  which 
his  excellent  knowledge  heautifieth^  andgOs 
yernment  adjoyned  will  heatifie  it.  lAn 
hipe  of  this  laft  "ifbe  conceive  by  his  ivritten 
BwA,xe, :  a  Specimen  of  the  otheK\in  this  In- 
terlocutory Conference  :  whereof  take 
thisy  li?hich  is  printed  y  but  as  an'Exmd:^ 
^  3  wherem 

To  the  Reader. 

li?herein  is  the  Subftance  of  the  "^hole.  In-i 
caufe  prolixity  "tt^ithout profit  ;  l^hat  every 
7nan  jatd y^oint  device ,1  neyther  could^nor 
cared  to  ohferVe ;  the  vigor  of  every  ob- 
jedion^  Wth  thefumme  of  each  anfwer^ 
IgueJJe^l  miffe  not  :  For  thefirU  dayjhad 
no  helpe  beyond  mine  o'^ne  0ctjome  of  good 
place  and  underflandingyhaVefeene  it,  and 
7iot  controlled  it  ^except  for  the  brevity  :  for 
*Ef.ur.di.  the  tlPolaU^out  of  divers  *  Copies^  I  have 
chrift-ch.  felecled  and  ordered  "^hat  you  here  fee  :  in 

Winchcft.  ^  i-    I        I      r^-         ir  ■ 

windfor.  them  ally  next  unto  (jod^  the  J\ings  Maje^ 
NToufngha^f/y  alone  viuft  have  the  glory  :  Tettofay^ 
f  '"'"^  that  the  prefent  State  of  our  Qhurch^  is  Very 
much  obliged  to  the  reverend  Fathers ,  my 
Lords  o/"London  and  Wmton^their  pains 
^  dexterity  in  this  bufmefjep^here  neither 
detraction /"ro/w  other '.nor  Rsittery  of  them. 
His  High?ieJJe  purpojed  to  compofe  all  quar^ 
rels  of  this  kinde^vhereby  ^andfuppoftngHe 
hadjetled  all  matters  of  the  Churchy  itplea^ 
fedhtmfotofignife  by  Proclamation  af^ 
ter  it  ivas  done :  but  there  is  a  triple  gene- 


To  the  Reader. 

ration  in  the  ^orld,of'Si>hom  the  Wile-man  Pioa  30  la 
Jpeaketh^Marry  I  Jay  nothing  (  for  e^en  pri=  ^'  '*' 
yateffeechcs  cannot  iiofip  pajje  without  the 
Jineere  of  a  Bhckc  Cole.  )  Inoneranke 
"thereof you  may  place. our  Hercules-Lim- 
bomaftix ,  l^hom  it  ?night  have  pleafed, 
fpithout  this  Gnachonicall  appeale,to  have 
rejied  His  Majesties  determination -and  be- 
ing a  Synopticall  Theologue  « «"^'«'"  ,•  and 
angry  ^  that  he  was  not  Jo  ^  <>r"£hn/u«f,  have 
learned  the  dijference  in  Divinity ^bet^Veene 
viam  Regis,  ^?i^;,viamgregis.  ^ 

Many  Copies  of  divers Jorts  have  beene 
jfcattered  a?idfent  abroad  Jbme  par  ttall  ^fome 
untrue ,  fome  flanderous.  If  hat  is  herefet 
do'^ney  for  the  truth  thereof Jl?all  be ju- 
flijied :  the  onely  wrong  therein^is  tohisEx^ 
cellentMajeJly^aJyllable  ofwhofe  admira^ 
hlejpeechesyitwaspitty  to  loofe  ^  hisivords 
as  they  were  uttered  by  him^  being  as  Salo-  Pfoif  it* 
monfpeakethylikc  Apples  of  gold^with 
pictures  of  filver  5  and  therefore  I  re queji 
thee,  good  Kadet ^when  thou  commejl:  to 
any  of  his  Highneffe  fpeeches  ,  to  turne 


To  the  Reader. 

Mattiali  his  ^pofirophe  upon  me ; 

Tu  male  jam  recitas,incipit  efletuus; 
and  I  will  take  it  kindly.  If  thou  he  honeji^ 
and  courteous  ,  thou  wilt  reftfatisfied^  and 
that  is  my  content :  to  lay  a  filloip  for  a 
T>oggey  forts  neyther  with  my  leijure^  nor 
purpoje.  Farewell. 

Thine  in  Chriftlefu: 

W.  Barlow; 

TH  E 



iHe  day  appointed  was, 
as  by  his  Majejlles  Pro- 
clamation wee  all  know, 
Thurfday  the  ii.  of  la^ 
iiuary  -  on  which  there 
met  at  Hamj^tm  Court  by  nine  of  the 
Clocke,  all  the  Bifhops  and  Deanes, 
fummoned  by  letters,  namely,  the  Arch- 
billiop  of  Qanterhury ,  the  Bifliops  of 
London  y  Durhaniy  \Vinchefleyy  Worce^icr, 
S:  Davids,  QHcJ?ej]:er,Q}Ul,  andPfre;v 
boroU?  :  the  Deanes  of  tlie  Chappell^. 
Qn-tjls  Chwch  ^  Wonc[ter,  Wefimmjle)r^-, 
^aulsy.Qyej},^y  JVtndfor  wilh  Doctor 

z  Hfefumme  of  the  Conference 

Field ^  and  Dodtor  f\jng^   Arch-deacon 
oCNottingham  :  who ,  though  the  nighc 
before ,  they  heard  a  rumor  that  it  was 
deferred  till  the  fourteenth  day  ,  yet  ac- 
cording to  the  firft  fummons  ,  thought 
k  their  duty  to  offer  themfelves  to  the 
Kings  prelence  ^   which  they  did  :  at 
'''which  time  it  pleafedhis  Highnefle  to 
*^''fignifie  unto  the  Bifliops  ,  that  the  day 
*'*^ having  prevented,or deceived  him,,  hee 
^^  would  have  them  returne  on  Saturday 
<<'  next  following :  On  which  day ,  all  the 
Deanes  &  Doctors  attending  my  Lords 
the  Bifhops,  into  the  prelence  Chamber, 
there  wee  found  fitting  upon  a  forme. 
Doctor  ^ifiolds^  Do6tor  Sparks,  MzHcr 
I\neu7jiuhs^  and  Mailer  QhadertoUy  Agents 
for  the  Millenary  plaintiffes.    The  Bi- 
fliops entring  the  privy  Chamber ,  ftaied 
there ,  till  commandement  came  from 
his  Majefty  ,.  that  none   of  any  fort, 
fliould  be  prefent,  but  only  the  Lords  of 
the  PriviejCounceU,  and  the  Bifliops, 
with  five  Deanes,  "vi;^.  of  the  Chappell, 


before  the  K^ngs  Majejly.   5 

Wcjlmiiijler,  ^duls  ,  Wefichefter ^  Salisbu- 
ry ^who  being  called  in ,  the  doore  was 
clofe  fliuc  by  my  Lord  Chamberlaine. 

After  a  while,  his  excellent  Majcfty 
came  in  ,  and  having  pafled  a  few  plea- 
fant  gratulations  with    feme    of   the 
Lords ,  hee  fate  downe  in  his  Chaire, 
removed   foiAvard  from  the  cloth  of 
State  a  pretty  diftance  j  where,   begin- 
ning with  a  mod  grave  and  Princely  de-  ^ 
claration  of  his  generall  drift  in  calling  '-» 
this  affembly,  no novall device ,  but  ac-  ^> 
cording  to  the  example  of  all  Chriftian  ;»> 
Princes,  w^ho  in  the  Commencement  of  ;> 
their  reigne ,  ufually  take  the  firfl:  courfe  >> 
for  the  eilabUfhing  of  the  Church,  both  ?? 
for  Doctrine  and  po'licie ,  to  which  the  y^ 
very  Heathens  themfelverhad  relation ;», 
in  their  Proverbe  ,   J.  loVe  ^rlndpium" ,y 
and  particularly  ^in  this  Land,King  Hen-  ?, 
ry  the  8.  toward  the  end  of  his  reigne  •  jy 
after  him  King  Ect^cirl  the  6.  who  al-:>, 
tered  more  ^  after  him  Queene  Mary, ,, 
who  reverfell  all  ^  andlaft  the  Queene  ,, 
B    2  ^         of 

4  Th$fwnme  oftj^e  Conference 

*^  of  famous  memory  ;  fo  W^  Miglmffe 
added  {foricis  wxMt'hthe  fidtitig  ,  that 
his  Maiejiy  never  remembred  her ,  but 
^Svkh  (bme  honourable  addition  )  who 
^  ftded  it  as  now  it  ftandeth  :  wherein^ 
^'^hee  laid  that  he  w^as  happier  then  they, 
^  in  chis;,  because  they  were  faine  to  alter 
'^  all  things  they  found  cftabliflied ,  but 
^^  he  law  yet  no  caule  lo  much  to  alter^ 
*^^  and  change  any  thing  ,  as  to  confirme 
^^  that  which  hee  found  well  letled  alrea- 
'-  dy  J  which  ftate,  as  it  leemedj  fo  affected 
*^^  his  roy  all  heart  J  thatitplealed  him  both 
^^to  enter  into  a  gratulation  to  Almigh- 
*^^jy  God  J  ( at  which  words,  he  put  oft  his 
^'^  hat )  for  brih^in^  him  into  the  pi-omiftd 
^^  landywh^^re  Religion  was  purely  profef- 
^^  led  y  where  he  late  among  grave  learned 
^'*^  and  reverend  men,  not,  as  before,  elft- 
^^  where,  a  King  without  ftate,  without 
'•*'  honor^w^ithout  order,  where  beardleflc 
'^^^boyeswould'bravehimtohis  fece,  and 
^^  to  affure  us ,  that  he  called  not  this  al^ 
^;lembly  for  any  Innovation  ,  acknow- 

before  the  KJfg^  A4<i}efly\     5 

Icd^in'^  the  govcrnmenc  Ecclcfiaflicil|^  ;>> 
as  iTbw  It  IS  ^  to  have  becne  approved  by  » 
ITTSmloIci  blessings  Frmn  G(;)d  him (7-1  ff?^ 
Joffi~tor  the  incrcale  of  the  Goipell  ^> 
ind  with  a  moit  happy  and  glorious  y> 
)eace  ;  yet,  becaviie  nQthin^  could  bee^^ 

[b  ablblutely  ordered,   but  fomeching^:> 
might  bee  added  afterward  thereunto^  y> 
and  in  any  ftateas  in  the  body  of  man  » 
corruptions  might  inienfibly  grow  ^  ey-  y> 
ther  through  time  or  perlbns  :  and  in  » 
that  he  had  received  many  complaints  yy 
iince  his  firft  enterance  into  the  Kincr-  y, 
dome,  elpecially  through  the  diflenti- ;>;> 
ons  in  the  Church  ,  of  many  difbrdcrs  y> 
as  he  heard,  and  much  difobedience  to  » 
theLawes,withagreat  fallmg  away  to?;> 
Popery  ^  his  purpofe  therefore  was  ^  like  » 
a  good  Phylitian ,  to  examine  and  trie  » 
the  complaints  ^  and  fully  to  remove  the  pj> 
occafions  thereof^  if  they  prove  fcanda-p> 
lous,  or  to  cure  them;,  ifthey  were  dan- p> 
gerouS;,or;,  if  but  frivolous ,  yec  to  take:>^ 
knowledge  of  them^thereby  to  caft  a  fop  ^y 

B  3  into 

6  The  fmnne  of  the  Conference 

into  Qerberus  his  mouthy  that  he  may  ne- 
^*^  ver  barke againe, his  meaning  beings  as 
^"^  he  pleafed  to  profefle  ,  to  give  fadtious 
^'^fpirits,  no  occafion  hereby  ,  of  boafting 
'^'^  or  glory,  for  which  caufe  he  Had  called 
^^  the  Bifhops  in,  feverally  by  themlelves, 
^'  not  to  bee  confronted  by  the  contrary 
^^  opponents ,  that  if  any  thing  fhould  bee 
*^'' found  meet  to  be  redreffed,  it  might  bee 
^"^  done,  (which  his  Majefty  twile  or  thrife 
^^  as  occafion  (erved ,  reiterated  )  without 
^*^  any  vifible  alteration.  .      . 

^^  And  this  was  the  lumme ,  Co  farre  as 
^^  my  dull  head  could  conceive  and  carry 
ic,  of  his  Majefties  generall  fpeech.  In 
particular  hee  fignified  unto  them  the 
principall  matters,  why  hee  called  them 
*^'  alone ,  w^ith  whom  hee  would  confult 
^^  about  lome  fpeciall  points  ,  wherein 
^"^  himielfe  defired  to  bee  fatisfied  5  thefe 
'^'^he  reduced  to  three  heads  *.  Firft,  con- 
^^  cerning  the  Booke  of  Common  Pray- 
^*^er  ,  and  Divine  Service  uied  in  this 
f*^  Church.   Second,  Excommunication  in 



before  the  K^gs  ^SMlajejiy.   y 

the  Ecclcfiafticall  Courts.  Third,  the  ^^ 
providing  o^  fie  and  able  Minifters  for  ^^ 
Ireland.  -'^ 

In  the  Booke  hee  required  fatisflidti-  ^^ 
on  about  three  things.  Firft,  about  Con--'-' 
firmation  •  firft  for  the  name,  if  arguing  -'■' 
a  confirming  of  Baptilhrie,  as  if  this  Sa- ^^ 
crament  without  it ,  where  of  no  vaUdi-  ^^ 
ty,  then  were  it  blafphemous :  Second- '-' 
ly,  for  the  u(e ,  firft  brought  upon  this  ^> 
occafion  •  Infants  being  baptized ,  and  ^> 
anlwering  by  their  Tatrini ,  it  was  ne-  p^ 
ccfTary  they  fliould  be  iCxamincd ,  when  p^ 
they  came  to  yeeres  of  dilcretion  ,  and  f> 
after  their  profcsfion  made  byJthem-:,> 
lelves,  to  bee  confirmed  with  a  blesfing  ?> 
or  prayer  of  the  Bifliop,  laying  his  hands  ^^ 
upon  their  heads  ,  abhorring  the  abufe )) 
in  Popery,  where  it  was  made  a  Sacra- 
ment and  corroboration  to  Baptifme. 

The  fecond  was   for  Abfolution 


which  how  wee  ufed  it  in  our  Church,  p/ 
he  knew  not,  he  had  heard  it  likened  to  p;, 
the  Popes  pardons ,  but  his  Majefties  ^^ 


8  The  fHmme  of  the  Conference 

opinion  was,thac^there  being  onely  two 
kinds  thereof  from  God  ^  the  one  gene- 
ralljtheotherparticular  :  for  thefirft^all 
Prayers  and  Preachings  doe  import  an 
Abfolution .  for  the  (econd;,  it  is  to  be  ap- 
phed  to  Ipeciall  parties  ,  who  having 
committed  a  fcandall;,  and  repenting, 
are  ablolved:otherwiie,where  there  pre- 
cedes not  either  excommunication-  or 
penance,there  needs  no  abfblution. 

The  third  was  Private  Baptifine ,  if 
private  for  place  ;,  his  Majefty  thought 
it  agreed  with  the  u(e  of  the  Piimitive 
^^  Church  J  if  for  perfons  ,  that  any  but  a 
^'  lawfull  Minifter  might  Baptize  any- 
^'^  where,  he  utterly  difliked:  and  in  this 
^^  point  his  Highmffe  grew  ibmewhat  ear- 
^^  nefl  againft  the  Baptizing  by  women 
*'*'  and  Laikes. 

^^  The  fecond  head  was  Excommunica- 
^'^  tion;, wherein  he  offered  two  things  to  be 
^^  confidered  of,  firft,  the  matter  :  fecond, 
^'  the  peribn.  In  the  matter,  firft,  whether 
<<  it  were  executed  ,  ( as  it  is  complained  in  - 







before  the  ^^g^  Majeffy.   9 

^^  lisihtcaufes  •  (econd,  whether  it  were 
^^  not  ufed  too  often.  In  the  Perfons^firft^ 
''  why  Laymen,  as  Chancelors  &c  Com- 
*^  miftaries  fliould  doe  itf  fecond,why 
"  thcBifliopsthemfelves,  for  the  more 
^*  dignitie  to  fb  high  and  wcightie  a  cen- 
"  lure,  fhould  not  take  unto  them,  for 
^^  their  asfifl:antS;,the  Deane  and  Chapter, 
^^  or  other  Minifters,  and  Chaplaines  of 
^^  gravitieand  account ;  and  fb  hkewile 
^^  in  other  cenfiires ,  and  giving  of  Or- 
^^  ders,&c. 

Thelaft;,  for  Ir^/^;/^,his  Majefiy  refer- 
red;,as  you  (hall  in  the  lafl:  daies  Confe- 
rence heare  ;,  to  a  conlultation.  His 
H'tghnejje  (  to  whom  I  offer  greac 
wrong  ,  in  being  as  ^hocion  to  De^ 
mojlhenes  ,  wtthIvv  xoyc^p  ,  the  Hatchet  to 
cut  fhort  (b  amiable  a  fpeech  )  having 
ended^the  Lord  Arch -bifhop  ,  after  that, 
on  his  knee  ,  hee  had  fignified  how 
much  this  whole  Land  was  bound  to 
God ,  for  (etting  over  us  a  Kjng,  Co  wile, 
learned  and  judicious  ,  addrefled  him- 

C  felfc 

lo  TT^efumme  of  the  Conference 

felfe  to  enforme  his  Majejlie  of  all  theft 
points  in  their  (everall  order.. 

And  firft^  as  touching  Confirmati- 
on ,  hee  fliewed  at  large  the  antiquity  of 
k  ,  as  being  uled  in  the  Catholique 
Church  ever  fince  the  Apoftles  time,  till 
that  of  late  fbme  particular  Churches 
had  unadviledly  rejeded  it.  Then  hee 
declared  the  lawflill  ufe  of  it  ,  agreeable 
to  his  Majejlies  former  fpeech  ,  affir- 
ming it  to  bee  a  meere  calumniation, 
and  a  very  untrue  fuggeftion  ^  if  any 
had  informed  his  Highneffe  ,  that  the 
Church  of  England  did  hold  or  teach, 
that  without  Confirmation ,  Baptifine 
was  unpcrfe6l,  or  that  it  did  adde  any 
thing  to  the  vertue  arid  ftrength  there- 
of And  this  hee  made  manifeft  by  the 
Rubrikes  in  the  Communion  Booke  (et 
before  Confirmation,  which  were  there 

My   Lord    of  London  flicceeded 
laying ,  that  the  authoritie  of  Confir- 
mation, did  not  depend  ,  onely  upoa 


before  the  K^ngs  Maje fly.  n 

the  Antiquity  and  pradife  of  the  Primi- 
tive Church  ,  which  out  of  Cyp^'^^^^y 
Ep.  7^.  and  Hieron,  ddvofus  Luciferian. 
he  flhewed ,  but  that  it  was  an  inftitu- 
tion  Apoftolicall ,  and  one  of  the  par- 
ticular points  of  the  Apoftles  Gate- 
chilme  ,  (et  downe  and  named  in  ex- 
prefTe  words  Heh.  6.  i.  and  lo  did  Ma. 
QalVin  expound  that  very  place ,  who 
wiflied  earneftly  the  reftitution  thereof 
in  thofe  reformed  Churches ,  where  it 
had  beene  abolifhed.  Vpon  which  place 
the  Bifhop  of  (}jr/(?/7  alio  infifted,  and - 
urged  k  both^gravely  and  learnedly.  His 
Maje[ly  called  for  the  Bible,  read  the  place 
of  the  Hchrer^Sy  and  approved  the  expo- 
fition.  ''» 

Something  alfb  the  Bidiop  of 
Durham  noted  ,  out  of  the  Gofpell  of 
Saint  Matthet^  ,  for  the  impofition  of 
hands  upon  Children.  The  conclu- 
fion  was ,  for  the  fuller  explanation^ 
(  that  wee  make  it  not  a  Sacrament, 
or   a  corroboration  to  a   former  Sa- 

C  1  crament. 



ir  Tloe  ft4nme  of  the  Conference 

^^  crament,  that  kfliouldbe  confidcred 
of  by  their  Lordihips  ,  whether  it 
might  not,without  alteration  (where- 
of his  Majejly  was  ftill  very  wary )  be 

^''intituled an  Examination  withaCon- 

^^  firmation. 

Next  in  order  ,   wai  the  point  of 
Abfolutioa;,  which  the  Lord  Arch-bi- 
ftiop  cleared  from  all  abule^,   or  fuperfti- 
tion  ;,  asit  is  ufed  in  our  Church  of 
England    :    reading  unto  his    Majejly ^ 
both,  the  Confcsfion  in  the  beginning 
of  the  Communion  Booke  ^  and  the 
Abfolution    following   it';,   wherein ;, 
( faith  hee  )  the  Minifter  doth  nothing 
elfc  but  pronounce  an  abfolution  in  ge- 
*'^  nerall.     His  Highiejfe  peruftd  them 
^^  both  in  the  Booke  it  ielfe,  liking  and 
^'^  approving  them;^  finding  it  to  be  very 
true,  which  my  Lord  Arch-bifliop  faid  : 
but  the  Biflhop  of  Low Jo?iftepping  for- 
ward;,  added^  it  becommeth  us  to  dcale 
plainly  with  your  Majejly  :  there  is 
alfp  in  the  Communion  Booke,  ano- 

before  the  K^gs  Ad^jejly.    i ; 

ther  more  particular  and  perfonall 
forme  of  Abfolution  ,  pre(cribed  to 
bee  uftd  in  the  order  for  the  Vifiration 
of  the  ficke  :  this  the  l\tu^  required  to 
lee  ;,  and  whileft  Mafter  Deane  of  the 
Chappell  was  turning  to  it  ^  the  (aid 
Bijfhop  alledged;,that  not  onely  the  Con- 
fesfions  of  ^u^iifla  ,  (Bohemc  y  Saxon , 
which  he  there  cited  ;,  doe  retaine  and 
allow  it;,  but  that  Mafter  QalVm  did  alio 
approve  fuch  a  generall  kinde  of  Con- 
fesfion^  and  Abfolution;,  as  the  Church 
of  Englayid  uleth^,  and  withall;,  did  very 
well  like  of  thoft  which  are  private^,  for 
lo  he  termes  them :  The  laid  particular 
"  Abfolution  in  the  Common  Prayer 
Booke  being  read^  his  Majefty  excee- 
dingly will  approved  it;,  adding,that  ic 
was  Apoftolicall;,and  a  very  good  ordi- 
nance;,in  that  it  was  given  in  the  name 
of  Chrifl:;,to  one  that  defired  it^and  up- 
on the  clearing  of  his  conicience. 
The  conclufion  waS;,  that  it  fhould  be 
conRiked  of  by  the  Bidiops  ^  whether 

C   3  unto 

1 4-  TJ?e  fumme  of  the  Conference 

unto  the  Rubrike  of  the  generall  Abfblu- 
tion  thefe  words,  Remisfion  of  finnes, 
might  not  be  added  for  explanation  fake, 
in  the  third  place ,  the  Lord  Arch-bi- 
fliop  proceeded   to  ipeake  of  Private 
Baptifme,  fhewing  his  Majefy ,  that  the 
adminiftration  of  Baptifme  by  Women 
and  Lay-perfons  was  not  allowed  in  the 
pra6tifeofthe  Church;,  but  enquired  of, 
byBifliops  in  their  Vifitation,  and  cen- 
fured  ;  ney'ther  doe  the  words  in  the 
Booke    inferre     any    iuch   meaning  : 
whereunto  the  King  excepted  ,  vrging 
^^  and  presfing  the  words  of  the  Booke, 
^^  that  they  could  not  but  intend  a  per- 
^'  misfion ,  and  fufFering  of  Women,and 
private  perfbns  to  Baptize.  Heere  the  Bi- 
ftiop  of  WorceHfr  faid  ,  that  indeede  the 
words  were  doubtfuU ,  and  might  bee 
prefled  to  that  meaning ,   but  yet  it  fte- 
med  by  the    contrary  pradife  of  our 
Church, ( cenluring  Women  in  this  caft  ) 
that  the  compilers  of  the  Booke  did  not 
ih  intend  them,  and  yet  propounded 


before  the  K^gsSS/faje fly.  X$ 

them  ambiguoudy ,  becaule  ocherwife, 
herhaps^  the  Booke  would  not  have  then 
pafTed  in  the  Parhament ,   (  and  for  this 
conjecture,  as  I  remember,  hee  cited  the 
teftimony  of  my  Lord  Arch-bifhop  of 
Torke  :  )  whereunto  the  Bifiiop  of  Lon- 
don replied  ,  that  thoie  learned  and  reve- 
rend men  ,   who  framed  the  Booke  of 
Common  Prayer,  intended  not  bv  am^ 
biguous  termes  to  deceive  any,  but  did, 
indeed,  by  thoft  words  intend  a  perm  if - 
iion  of  private  perfons ,  to  Baptifc  in  caie 
of  necesfity ,  whereof  their  Letters  were 
witnefles  .,  iome  parts  whereofhee  then 
read ,  and  withall  declared  that  the  lame 
was  agreeable  to  the  pra6tilc  of  the  an- 
cient Church  •  urging  to  that  purpofe, 
both  ^(5?. z.  where  3000.  were  Baptized 
in  one  day^  which  for  the  Apoftles  alone 
to  doe  ,  was  imposfible,  at  lead  impro= 
bable  ;  and  befides  the  Apoftles ,  there 
were  then  no  Bifliops  or  Priefts  :  And 
aUb  the  authority  of  Terfw///^;/ ,  and  S. 
Ambrofe  in  the  fourth  to  the  Epheftans^ 


i6  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

plaine  in  that  point  ,  laying  alio  open 
the  abfurdicies  and  impieties  of  their 
opinion  who  thinke  there  is  no  necesfi- 
ty  of  Baptifme,  which  word  Necesfity, 
he  ib  prelTed  not;,  as  if  God  without  Bap- 
tifme  could  not  lave  the  child  ;  but  the 
caftput;,  that  the  ftate  of  the  Infant  p  dy- 
ing unbaptized^  being  uncertaine^,  and  to 
God  onely  knowne  •  but  if  it  die  Bapti- 
zed;,  there  is  an  evident  affurance  ^  that  it 
is  faved.    Who  is  he  that  having  any  Re- 
ligion in  him^  would  not  fpeedily  ,   by 
any  meanes^,  procure  his  childe  to  bee 
Baptized  ^  and  rather  ground  his  allien 
upon  Chrifts  promife,  then  his  omisfion 
thereof>upon  Gods  fecret  judgenment  f 

His  Majejly  replied;,firftto  that  place  of 
^^  the  ^Bs^t\\2.t  it  wasanAxfl  extraordina- 
ry ;,neyther  is  it  found  rea(bning  from 
things  done  before  a  Church  be  fttled 
and  grounded;,unto  thofe  which  are  to 
be  performed  in  a  Church  ftabhlhed<S^ 
flourifliing  :  That  he  al(b  maintained 
the  necesfity  of  Baptifme^  and  alwaies 







before  the  KJings  Ai^jefiy.  17 

^^  thought ,  that  the  place  of  S.  Iohnjl>ljfi 
^^quis  renatus  fucrit  ex  aquaj^c.W3.smcznt 
^^  of  the  Sacrament  of  Baptifine,  and  that 
^^  he  had  lb  defended  it  againft  Ibme  Mi- 
nifters  in  S cot! a?hi^&c  it  may  feem  ftrange 
to  you  my  Lords,  laith  his  MajcjJy^  that 
^'^  \,  who  now  thinke  you  in  England  give 
*''^  too  much  to  Bapci(me;>did  14.  Moneths 
^^  a.go  in  Scotland  arguewith  my  Divines 
^^  there,for  afcribing  too  htletothatho- 
^^  ly  Sacrament.  Inlbmuch  that  a  pert  Mi- 
"  nifter asked  me,if  I  thought  Baptilme  lb 
**^  neceflary ,  that  if  it  were  omitted,  the 
^*^ -child  fliould  be  daned-l  anfwered  him^ 
^*  No;,  but  if yoU;,  being  called  to  Baptize 
**^the  child;,though  privately^fhould  refufe 
^^  to  come;,!  thinke^you  fhall  be  damned. 
"  But  this  necesfity  of  Baptilme,his  Afaje- 
^^Jly  lb  expounded, that  it  was  neceffary  to 
•'  be  had, where  k  might  be  lawfully  had, 
^'  id  ijly  miniftred  by  lawfuU  Minifters,by 
*^  whom  alone^and  by  no  private  perfon^ 
^^  he  thought  it  might  not,  in  any  cale  bee 
^^  adminiflred;  and  yet  utterly  difliked  all 

D  "^^^rebapti- 

iS  Thefi^mme  of  the  Conference 

^^  rebaptization;,although  eyther  Women 
^^  or  Laikes  had  Baptized. 

Here  the  Bifliop  of  Winchejler  ]^ake 
very  learnedly ;,and  ear neftly;>in  that  point, 
affirming  ,  that  the  denying  of  private 
perfbnS;^  in  cafes  of  necesfity,  to  Baptize^ 
were  to  croffe  all  antiquity^feeing,  that  it 
had  bcene  the  ancient  and  common, 
pradile  of  the  Church,  when  Miniflers 
at  fuch  times  could  not  be  got ,  and  that 
it  was  alfb  a  rule  agreed  upon  among 
Divines,  that  the  Minifterisnotof  the 
Eflence  of  the  5acrament.His  Majefiy  an- 
^^  lwered,though  he  be  not  of  the  Eflence 
^^  oftheSacrament,yet  is  he  of  the  Eflence 
of  the  right  and  lawful!  Miniflry  of  the 
Sacrament,  taking  for  his  ground  the 
commisfion  of  his  Difciples, 
MzM8.2o.Goe  preach  and  Baptize. 

The  iffue  was  a  confultation, whether 
into  the  Rubrike  of  Private  Baptifme^ 
which  leaves  it  indifferently  to  all  Laikes 
or  Clergy,  the  Words,  Curate  or  lawfult 
Minifler,  might  not  bee  infertcd,  which 



before  the  Kings  Majesty,   j  9 

was  not  fo  much  ftucke  at  by  the  Bi- 
fliops.  And  ib  his  Majejly  proceeded 
to  the  next  point,  about  Excommunica- 
"  tion^in  caufe  of leflcr  moment  :  firft;, 
^'  whether  the  name  might  not  be  altered, 
^'  and  yet  the  lame  cenfure  be  retained  :  or 
'^'  iecondly ;,  whether  m  place  of  it;, mother 
Coercion  equivalent  thereunto  ;,  might 
not  be  invented  and  thought  of .  A  thing 
very  eafily  yeelded  unto  of  all  fides ,  be- 
caufeit  had  beene  loHg  and  oiten  defi- 
red,  but  could  not  be  obtained  from  hec 
Majejly^  who  refolved  to  bee  ftill,  fcmper 
eadem, ^nd  to  alter  nothing  which  (lie  had 

And  thus  theWednefclayrucceeding, 
being  appointed  for  the  exhibiting  of 
their  determinations  in  theft  points ,  and 
the  Munday  next  immediately  follow- 
ing this  prefent  day ,  for  the  Oppo- 
nents to  bring;  in  their  Complaints,  wee 
were  dilmilled  after  three  hourcs ,  and 
morefpent.  which  were  (bone  gone,  fo 
admirably  ,  both   for    underftanding, 

D  2  fpeechj 

20  ThefHmme  of  the  Conference 

fpeech;,  ancf  judgement,  did  his  Majejiy 
handle  all  choie  pointS;,  lending  us  away, 
not  with  contentment  oriely ,  but  afto- 
nifliment>and,which  is  pitifull,  you  will 
lay  p  with  Ihameto  us  all,  that  a  I^ina- 
brought  up^among  Puritans^not  the  Icar- 
nedfl:  men  in  the  World,  and  (chooled  by 
them  J  (waying  a  Kingdome  full  of  bufi- 
neffe,  and  troubles  ,  naturally  given  to 
much  exerciie  and  repaft^nioiild  in  points 
ofDivinityfhewhimlelfe  as  expedite  Sc 
perfe6t,as  the  greateft  Schollers,and  mofi: 
induftrious  Students ,  there  preftnt , 
might  not  out-ftrip  him.  But  this  one 
thing  I  might  not  omit,  that  his  Majefiy 
fliould  profefle ,  howfoever  hee  lived 
among  Puritans,and  was  kept,  for  the 
mmtpart^as  aWard  under  them,  yet^ 
frntrte  \vas  ofthe  age  of  his  Sonnp, 
ten  yeeres  old,he  ever  difliked  their  opi- 
nions, as  the  saviour  ofjhe^World  fijd^ 
Though  hee  lived  amongthem,  hee  was 
not  of  them. 

Finis  priniie  diet. 







N  Monday  ,  lanumc 
fixteene ;,  becvveene  ii. 
and  11.  of  the  clock;, 
were  the  4.  plain- 
tiffes  called  into  the 
privy  Chamber^  (  the 
two  Bifhops  of  Lo?/- 
don  y  and  JFinchcfier  being  there  be- 
fore )  and  after  them  all  the  Deanes 
and  Do(5tors  prelent,  which  hadbeene 
iummoned  ;,  Tatr.  Galloyi?ay  fometime 
Minifter  of 'Pert/;  \n  Scotland  y  admitted 
alio  to  bee  thercp  the  Kings  M^/ty^y ;,  en- 
trins;  the  Chamber  ^    preftncly  tooke 

D    3  his 

%%  I'hefumme  of  the  Conference 

his  Chaire,  placed  as  the  day  before  ( ,the 
noble  young  Prince  ,   fitting  by  upon  a 
ftoole;,)  where  making  a  fliorc ,  but  a  pi- 
thy and  iweet  Ipeech ,  to  the  fame  pur- 
*^'  pofe,which  the  firft  day  he  madejV/;^.of 
^^  the  end  of  the  Conference ,  meet  to  bee 
'^  had^  hee  faid,  by  every  Kjng^  at  his  firft 
"entrance  to  the  Crownc  ;  not  to  inno- 
'^''vate  the  government  preiently  eftabli- 
^'^fhed^whichbylongexperience  he  had 
^^  found  accompliflied  with  io  fingular 
*''^  blesfings  of  God,  45.  yeereS;,asthatno 
'^  Church  upon  the  face  of  the  earth  more 
^^  fiourifhed,then  this  oi  England, Bux.  firft 
^^  to  fettle  an  uniforme  order  through  the 
*'^  whole  Church.Secondly, to  plant  unity 
^^forthefiippresfingof  Papifts  and  ene- 
mies to  ReHgion.  Thirdly,  to  amend 
abuieS;,as  naturall  to  bodies  politike^  & 
corrupt  man,as  thefhadow  to  thebody^, 
which  once  beingentred;,  hold  on  as  a 
wheele^his  motion  once  Cct  going. And 
becaule  many  grievous  complaints  had 
beene  made  to  him  ,  fince  his  hrft  en- 

^^  trance 


before  the  K^gs  Adajefly.   1% 

"  trance  into  the  Land,  he  thought  it  bePc 
^'  to  iend  for  Ibme^whom  his  Majefiy  un- 
^*^  derftood  to  be  the  moft  grave,  learned 
^^  and  modcft  of  the  agreeved  fort,  whom 
'^^  being  there  prelent^hee  was  now  ready 
''*'  to  heare  at  large^w^hat  they  could  obje(5l 
'^  or  lay  •  and  fo  willed  them  to  begin  ; 
whereupon  they  foure  kneeling  downe^, 
D.  ^inalds  the  Foreman  ^  after  a  fliort 
Preamble  gratulary  ,  and  fignifyinghis 
Majejiies  Summons  ^by  vertue  whereof, 
they  then,  and  there  appeared^  reduced  all 
matters  difliked,  or  queftioned  into  thefe 
foure  heads. 

1  That  the  Dodrine  of  the  Church 
might  be  prelerved  in  purity  according  to 
Gods  Word. 

2  That  good  Paftors  might  bee  planted 
in  all  Churches  to  preach  tht  (ame. 

3  That  the  Church  government  might 
be  fincerely  miniftred^according  to  Gods 

4  That  the  Booke  of  common  Praier 
might  be  fitted  to  more  increafe  of  Piety. 


24-  ThefHmmeoftheConferejKe 

I  For  the  firft;,  hee  mooved  his  Majejly 
that  the  Booke  oi trucks  ofreligion;,con- 
eluded,  1561.  might  be  explaned  in  places 
oblcure^and  enlarged  where  fome  things 
were  defe^ive.For  example;,  whereas^c7. 
1 6.  the  words  are  thel'e  :  After  W€  have  re- 
ceived the  holy  Ghoft  ,  wee  may  depart 
from  Grace  :  Notwithftanding^the  mea- 
ning be  lbund;,yet  he  defired  that^becaufe 
they  may  leeme  to  be  contrary ;,to  the  Do- 
ctrine of  Gods  Predeftination  and  eledti- 
onin  the  17.  j4rt'icle  y  both  thofe  words 
might  be  explaned  with  this,  or  the  like 
addition^Yet  neyther  totally,  nor  finally  5 
and  alio  that  the  mne  aflercions  Ortho- 
doxall  -,  as  hee  termed  thern,  concluded 
upon  at  Lamheth^  might  bee  inlerted  into 
that  Booke  of  ^rf/f /a. 

2  Secondly^  where  it  is  (aid  in  the  25. 
J^rtkle^  that  it  is  not  lawfull  ^  for  any 
man^to  take  upon  h  im  the  office  of  Prea- 
ching or  adminiftring  the  Sacraments^in 
the  congregation  .  before  he  be  lawfully 


before  t he  K^ngs  Maje fly.  zsr 

called,  D.^ln.  tooke  exception  tothefe 
words.  In  the  Congregation^as  inaplying 
a  lawfulnefle  for  any  man  wharibever, 
out  of  the  Congregation ,  to  preach  and! 
adn?iinifter  the  Sacraments  •  thoiidi  he 
had  no  lawful!  calling  thereunto. 

Thirdly;,  in  the 25.  j//*f/c/c,thele  words- 
touching  Confirmation^  grownc  partly 
of  the  corrupt  following  the  Apoftles, 
being  oppofite  to  thofc  in  the  CoUedl  of 
Confirmation     in    the     Communion 
Booke;,upon  whom  after  the  example  of 
the  Apoftles^arguC;,  laith  he,  a  contrariety 
each  to  other .  the  fii'ft,  confcsfins;  Con- 
firmation  ,  to  be  a  deprayed  imitation  of 
the  Apoftles  .  the  iecond  ,  grounding  it 
upon  their  example,^t^.8.and  9. as  if  the 
Bifliop  in  Confirming  of  child  ren^jdid  by ' 
his  impofing  of  hands  ^  as  the  Apoflles 
in  thole  places^,  give  the  vifible  graces  of 
the  holy  Ghoft^and  therefore  hee  defired 
that  both  the    contradi(5lion  rriight  be. 
confidered^^and  this  groundof  Confirma- 
tion examined, 

'    >  •  "i  •  £  Thus 

zd.  Thjt^^me  of  the  Cmfererrce 

Thus  farre  Opiaor  (!^j^- wpnt  on  with- 
out  aqy  interruption  :  but;,here,as  he  wasL- 
proceeding,  the  RifTiop  oiLonion ,  much 
raooved  to  heare  thefe  meji ,  who  fcnae  ^ 
of  them  the  fevehing  before;,and  the  (aix^e 
mornings  hadoi^de  femblance;^  of  joy- 
ningwich  the  BiflhopS;,    ai,id  that  they 
fought  for  nothing  but  unity,  now  ftrike . 
to  overthrow,  ( if  they  could)  all  ^t  once, 
cut  him  off,  and  kneeling  downe,  moft 
humbly  defire^d  bis.  Mfjefiy.,Btii,  •.That 
the  ancient  Caj^on  remembred;, 
which  iaith,  that  Schifmatkl  contra  Epip 
cofoSyUonfunt  audiendi.    Secondly ,  that  i( 
any  of  thele  parties  were  in  the  number 
of  the  thouiand  Minifters ,  who  had 
once   lubfcribed  to   the  Communion 
Booke  .,  and  yet  had. lately  exhibited  a 
Petition  to  his  Majefiy  j,  againft  it,  they 
might  be  removed  and  not  heard  ,  accor- 
ding to  the  Decree  of  a  very  ancient 
Councelljproyiding,  th^t  no  man  fliould 
bee  admitted   to   fpeake  againft  that, 
whereto  hee  had  formerly  fubfcribed: 

.:  Thirdly, 

before  the  l^ngsMcij&sij.   ly 

Thitaiy^he  puG-D: 5^^/iaMi:an  his AflTo 
ciates  iti  rtiindevhow  rtluch  Aey  were 
bound  CO  his"  Majvflivs '  ekceWing  gfbac 
clenndricy,  ih '  di'it  "flWy  \vet^  'ptrtViie^ec!^ 
contrary  to  the  Sr.ttutc. I  Mr.  to  (beak^io 
ireely  againftthe Leicurgy  and  DHcipHne 
eilabhflied.  Laftly,  fotalinilch  as  that  hee 
perceived  they  tooke'a  cbtirletendiiig'to 
the  utter  overthrow  of  the  orders  of  the 
Church;,thus  long  continued^  hee  dejtlred 
Ed  know  the  end  which  they  aiiiied  '.it^ 
*illedo;incr  a  place  out  ofM.  CarnV'irflk^ 
arhrmincr  that  wee  ou2;ht  rather  to  con- 
rorme  our  Tehees  itt  ot'detS'  afid  CeF^nior:, 
nies  to  the  fafhion  of  the  Twrfe;;iitM"to 
the  Papifts  5  w^hich  Pofition  hee  doubted 
they  approved;,  becaufe^,  contrary  to  thq 
ofdei's  6f  the  Vrti verfities,  they  appddred 
before  his  Mijcjly  in  Turky  goWnto,  not , 
in  their  SchoUftrcall  habits,  forcing  to. 
thieirdcgree?.' •■"'::''';;•'  '';"'  '        ' 
''  ^'  Hfs  mjeffy  perfc^iyi^'ttf  l:6f^'  o^ 
*^-  Loudon  to  (pcake  irt  forne  pasfibn'^' iaid, 
^^  chat  thcrewas  iri  itfomth'rA2;wHi<:^fT'  We 
E  z  '^  might 

2S  Thefumme  of  the  Conference 

^^  cnighc  cxcufe/omthing  that  he  did  ilrgi id 

'^'^hke :  excuft  his  pasfion  he  might;,  thin- 
"  ip  moved, 
^^  both  in  relped; ,  that  they .  did  thus  tra- 
^^  duce  the  prelent  well  fttled  Church  Go- 
"  vernment-5c  alfo,did  proceedinlo  indi- 
"  reft  a  courie^jContrary  to  their  own  pre- 
*''ience,6c  the.intent  of  that  meeting  al(a: 
yet  he  mifliked  his  fudden  interruption^ 
*'*'  of  D.'l^m.who  he  fhoujd  h,^ve  fuffered 
^^  to  have  taken  his  courfe  andliberty^cpn- 
*^^  eluding  that  there  is  no  order^^nor  can  be 
'*'any  effedlual  iflue  of dilputation^ifeach. 
^^  party  might  not  bee  (liffered  ^  without 
*^  chopping^  to  fpeake  at  large  what  hee. 
^'  would.  And  therefore  willed  that  either 
^*'  the  Doctors  fliould proceed,  or  that  the 
''  Bifliop  would  frame  his  anfwer  tothcfc 
'^motions  already  made  *  although^ faith 
^*^  his  Majefly,  Ibme  of  them  are  very  need- 
*'Mefle  !  It  was  thought  fitter  to  aniwer, 
left  the  number  of  objedions  incrcafing, 
clie  aniwers  would  prove  confuied. 
Upon  the  firfl  motion^  Concerning  fal- 
^>r     •  .  ^^        '     -       J. 

before  the  I{ings  ^dajejly.  zp 

liner  from  Grace -The  Bifhop  ot  London 
tookeoccafion  to  fignifie  to  his  Majejiy^ 
how  very  many  in  thefe  daies,  neglecting 
hoHnelTe  of  Hfe,  prefumed  too  much  of 
perfifting  of  Grace  ^  laying  all  their  Reh- 
gionuponPreJcftination,  If  I  fliall  bee 
faved^l  fliall  be  faved  •  which  he  termed  a 
deiperate  Do6lrine,fhewing  it  to  be  con- 
traiyto  good  Divinity  ^  and  the  true  do- 
d:rineof  Predeftination,  wherein,  wee 
fliould  lealon  rather  ajcoulendoy  then  de- 
fcendendo  y  thus  ;  I  live  in  obedience  to 
Godpin  love  with  my  neighbor^  I  follow 
my  vocation,  &c.  therefore  I  truft  that 
God  hath  elected  me ,  and  prcdeftinatcd 
me  to  lalvation  :  not  thus,  which  is  the 
ufuall  courie  of  argument ,  God  hatli 
prcdeftinatcd  and  cholen  me  to  life^there- 
fore  though  I  fin  never  Co  grievoufly,  yet 
I  fliall  not  be  damned  :  for  whom  he  once 
loveth,  he  loveth  to  the  end.  Whereupon 
he  fliewed  his  Majejly  out  of  the  next^r- 
t/c/e,what  was  thedodrine  of  the  Church 
oCEngUni^  touching  Predeftination ,  iiv 

E  3  the 

io  nefHmme  of  the  Conference 

the  very  lafl:  Paragraph,  fcil.  Wee  muft 
receive  Gods  promiies,  in  fuchwilc,  as 
they  bee  generally  iet  forth  to  us  in  holy 
Scrip  ture^and  in  our  doings,  that  the  will 
of  God  IS  to  be  followed,  which  we  have 
exprelly  declared  unto  us  in  the  Word  of 
'^'  God '.which  part  of  the  Article  his  Af^yV; 
(iy  very  well  aprooved^and  after  he  had, 
after  his  manner,very  Angularly  dilcou- 
fed  on  that  place  of  P^/^/, Work  out  your 
^-ialvation  with feare and  trembling  j  he' 
^'^  left  it  to  bee  confidered,  whether  any 
^^  thing  w^ere  meet  to  bee  added,  for  the 
^^  clearing  of  the  Doctor  his  cloubt,bypuc- 
^^  ting  in  the  word  Often,  orthehke,  as 
^^  thus, We  may  often  depart  from  Grace  j 
"but  in  the  meanetime ,  wiftcd  that  the 
Doctrine  of  Predeftination  might  bee 
very  tenderly  handled ,  and  with  great 
difcretion,leil:  on  the  one  fide,Gods  onl- 
'^  nipotency  might  be  callec!  in  qneftiori^ 
''^  by  impeaching  the  dodrineofhiseri^^- 
"  nail  pFedefl:ination,or  on  the  other,ade- 
*^  Iperate  prefiimption  might  be  arrea^red; 


before  the  Kjj^p  Adajefly.    ;  i 

^^  by  inferring  the  neceflary  certainty  of 
^*  Handing  and  perfifting  in  grace. 

To  the  fecond  it  was  anfvvered,  that  it 
was  a  vaine  objC(5tion  ,  becaufe  ,  by  the 
Dodrineand  praclile  of  the  Church  of 
England^  none^  but  a  hcenced  Minifter, 
might  preach,  nor  cyther  publikely  or 
privately  adminifter  the  Euchanft  ,  or 
'^  the  Lords  Supper.  And  as  for  private 
*'  Baptifhie,hisMyf^>'anrwered,that  he 
^^had  taken  order  for  that  with  the 
'^  Bifhops  already. 

In  the  third  point  (  which  was  about 
Confirmation  )  was  obftrved  ey ther  cu- 
ripfity ,  or  malice ,  becau(e  the  Article 
which  was  there  prelently  read,  in  tho(e 
words  J  Theft  five  commonly  called  Sa- 
craments, that  is  to  fay.  Confirmation, 
Penance,  Orders,  &cc,  are  not  to  bee  ac- 
counted for  Sacraments  of  the  Gofpell, 
being  fuch  as  have  growne  partly  of  the 
corrupt  following  the  Apoftlcs,  6cc.  In- 
fimuteth,  that  the  making  of  Confirma- 
tion,to  be  a  Sacramenc,is  a  corrupt  imita- 

31  Thefumme  of  the  Conference 

rion -but  the  Communion  Booke;,aiming 
at  the  right  u(e,and  proper  courfe  thereof, 
make  it  to  be  according  to  the  Apoftles 
example  ;  which  his  Majefly  oblerving^ 
and  reading  both  the  places^  concluded 
the  objedbion  to  be  a  meere  cavill.  And 
this  was  for  the  pretended  contradi6ti- 

Now  for  the  ground  thereof,  theBi- 
fliop  o( London  added  ,  that  it  was  not  Co 
much  founded  upon  the  places  in  the 
J'cls  of  the  Apoftles ,  which  fome  of  the 
Fathers  had  often  fhewed  •  but  upon 
Hei.6,i.where  it  is  made^  as  the  firfl:  day 
he  had  faid,  a  part  of  the  Apoftles  Gate 
chifme  j  which  was  the  opinion,  befidc 
the  judgement  of  the  holy  Fathers  ^  oi 
Mafter  CalVin,  and  D.F«//;e/the  one  upon 
Heb.6.i.2LS  upon  Saturday  hec  had  decla- 
redj  the  other  upon  ^Eis  S.verf!  i/.whcre 
with  S,^uguHine,ht  faith,that  we  do  not^ 
in  any  wile  miflikethat  ancient  Ceremo- ' 
ny  (of  impofition  of  hands,  for  ftrength- 
ning  and  confirming  iuch  as  hadbeene 


before  the  Ki^gs  Majefly.    5  j 

Baptized  )  but  ufe  it  in  our  (elves  ^  being 
nothing  cire,but,as  S.  ^ujlen  affinnech^ 
Prayer  over  a  man  to  be  ftrengchned  and 
confirmed  by  the  holy  Ghoft  :  or  to  re- 
ceive incrcaie  of  the  gifts  of  the  holy 
Ghofl:,asS.y/??//vo/c  (aith  j  and  a  lide  af- 
ter alludeth  unto  Hr/'.  6.  1^  &c.  Neyther 
need  there  any  great  proofe  of  this  (  (aith 
my  Lord) For  confirmation  to  be  unlaw- 
fiill^itwas  n^heir  opiniOjWho  objedied 
thiS;,ashefuppoled^this  was  it  that  vex- 
ed them,  that  they  had  not  the  uie  thereof 
in  their  owne  hands,  every  Paftor  in  his 
Parifli  to  confirme,  for  then  it  would  bee 
accounted  an  Apoftolicall  inftitutionjand 
willed  D.(/^'m.  to  fpeake  herein  what  hee 
thought  :  whofeemedto  yeeld  thereun- 
to, replying  that  fome  Dioceffe  of  a  Bi- 
fhop,  having  therein  fix  hundred  Parifli 
Churches  (which  number  cauled  theBi- 
fhop  of  London  to  think  himfelf  perfbnal- 
ly  touched,  becauft  in  his  Dioceffe  there 
are  609^  or  there,  abouts )  it  was  a  thing 
very  inconvenient  to  comit  cofirmation 

F  unto 

54-  Thefumme  of  the  Conference 

untotheBifliop  alone,  (uppofing  it  im- 
posfible  thac  hce  could  take  due  examina- 
tion of  them  all ,  which  came  to  be  con- 
firmed.  To  the  fa6l,  my  Lord  oiLondon 
anRvered  ^  for  his  Majejiies  information, 
that  the  Bifhops  in  their  ViiitationS;,give 
out  notice  to  them  ,  who  are  defirous 
eyther  to  be  themfelves ,  or  to  have  their 
children  confirmed,  of  the  place  where 
they  wil  be- 6c  appoint  eyth^feheir  Chap- 
laines,  or  fome  other  Minifters,  to  exa- 
mine them  which  are  to  be  confirmed, 
and  lightly  confirme  none,  but  eyther  by 
the  teftimony,  or  report  of  the  Par(bns 
or  Curates  where  the  children  are  bred, 
and  brought  up.  To  the  opinion  hce  re- 
plied, that  none  of  all  the  Fathers  ev£r 
admitted  any  to  confirme  but  Bifhops 
alone  ,•  yea  even  S  Jerome  him(elfe,though 
otherwift  no  friend  to  BifhopSjby  realbn 
ofaquarrellbetweene  the  Biftiop  ofJe* 
r«/a/«^wandhim,yet  confeffcth,  that  the 
execution  thereof  was  reftrained  to  Bi- 
fhops ovidy  jjid  honor  em  fotius  Sacerdoty^. 


before  the  K^ngs  Majesty.   5  5 

quam  ad  legts  necesjttatem.  Whereof^  name- 
ly of  this  Prerogative  of  Bidiops,  hegi- 
vech  this  realon  ,  Ecckfut  film  injummi 
Sacerdotis  dignitate  fzndtt  -^  cut  ft  non  cxors 
qu(tdam  <t  cib   omnibus   cm'inens  dctur  po= 
tejlas^  tot  in  Ecclcfijs  efficercntur  fafmata^ 
qun  Sacerdotes.  My  Lord  Bifhop  of  JFm^ 
chejler  chalenged  Doctor  Reynolds  ^  wil- 
ling him,  of  his  learning,  to  flhew  where 
ever  he  had  read,  that  Confirmation  was 
at  all  uied  in  Ancient  times  by  any  other 
butBifhopSjand  added  withall,  that  it 
was  iiled  ,  partly  to  examine  Children, 
and  after  examination ,  by  impofition  of 
hands  ( which  was  a  Cercmonie  of  blef- 
fingamongthe  le'^es )  to  bleffe  them  and 
pray  over  them :  and  partly  to  tiy  Avhe- 
ther  they  had  beene  Baptized  in  the  right 
forme  or  no.For  in  former  ages  Baptilme 
was  adminiftrcd  in  divers  Torts  :  fome 
gave  it ,   In  nomine  patris  c^  filij  ,  Crr. 
Others,  In  nomine  pah'is  majoris^  ^  filtj  jnt- 
?/am^  as  the  ^r;7^?rj  did  ;  fbme,  /;/  nomiue 
patris  ftr  filium^in  fpiritu J^n^o :  Others, 

F  1  not 

2,6  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

not  in  the  name  of  theTrinity,  but  in  the 
death  of  Chrift,  &c.  Whereupon  Catho- 
lick  Bithops  were  conftrained  to  examin 
them  who  were  Baptized  in  remotis^  farre 
from  them^  how  they  were  taught  to  be- 
leeve,  concerning  Baptilme  •  If  it  were 
rightjto  confirme  them  j  if  amifle,  toin- 

His Majejly  conckided this  pointy  firfl: 
by  taxing  S.  lerome  for  his  affertion  ^  that 
a  Bifhop  was  not  Diviw^  ordhiationis- 
(theBifhop  of  Lo«^o«  thereupon^  infcr- 
ting,  that  unleffehee  could  prove  his  or- 
dination lawful!  our  of  the  Scriptures, 
hee  would  not  bee  a  Bifliop  4.houres  ) 
which  opinion  his  Majejiy  much  di- 
^'^  ftafted;,  approving  their  calling  and  ufe 
^^  in  the  Church ,  and  clofed  it  up  with 
*' this  fliortAphorifme,  No  Bifliop,  no 
^^King.  Secondly,for  Confirmation,  his 
^^Highnejfe  thought,  that  it  Ibrtcd  ney- 
^^  ther  with  the  authority  ,  nor  decencie 
*^  of  the  lame ,  that  every  ordinary  Pa- 
J^ftorfliouW  doe  it  :  and  therefore  fiid, 


before  the  I{wgS(!^A^aj€fiy.  ij 

^'  that  for  his  part ,  he  meant  not  to  take 
'^  that  from  the  Bifliops,  which  they  had 
^'  folong  retained  and  enjoyed-ieeingas  ic 
*^  plealed  him  to  adde^as  great  realbn^jthat 
^^  none  fhould  confirme  without  thcBi- 
"fliops  licence,  as  none.fiiould  preach 
"  without  his  licence,  and  fo  referrina^  as 
^^  the  day  before,  the  word  Examination^, 
^^  to  be  added  to  the  Rubrike  in  the  title  of 
^^  Confirmation  in  the  Communion 
*''^Booke,  if  it  were  thought  good  fo  to 
"  doe  J  he  willed  D.5^'  proceed. 

Who  after  that  he  had  deprecated  the 
imputation  of  Schifme,  with  a  protefta- 
tion,  that  he  meant  not  to  gall  any  man ; 
gocth  on  to  the  37.  Jrttcle  ^  wherein 
hee  (aid  thele  words.  The  Bifliop  of 
Q{ome  hath  no  authority  in  this  Land, 
not  to  bee  fufficient,  unlcffe  it  w^ere  ad- 
ded, nor  ought  to  >Have.  Whereat  his 
Majejiy  heartily  laughed ,  and  fo  did  the 
Lords  :  the  Kl^ig  adding  an  anfwer, 
which  the  Rhetoricians  call,  'iy^mfxa  «a^>- 
%'w^.  What  (peake   you  of  the   Popes 

Fj         authority 

:58  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

^^  authority  here  ?  Hahemm  jure  quod  habe^ 
^^  mm^  and  therefore ,  in  as  much  as  it  is 
''^  faid;,h.e  hath  not^it  is  plaineenough,that 
^'  he  ought  not  to  have. 

This^and  fome  other  motions  fteming 
both  to  the  King  and  Lords  very  idle 
and  frivolous ,  occafion  was  taken ,  in 
lome  by-talke  ,  or  leraember  a  certaine 
delcription^which  Mafter  Sutler  oiCanu 
bridge  made  of  a  Puritane,  Viz^.  APuri- 
taine  is  a  Proteftant  frayed  out  of  his 
wits.ButmyLord  oi  London^  there  feri- 
oufly  put  his  Majefy  in  minde  of  the 
Ipeeches ,  which  the  French  Embaffador 
Mafter  ^ogne  gave  out  concerning  our 
Church  of  England  y  both  at  Canterbury 
after  his  arrivall ;  and  after^  at  the  Court, 
upon  the  view  of  our  iblemne  fcrvice  and 
ceremonies,  namely,  that  if  the  reformed 
Churches  in  France  had  kept  the  lame 
orders  among  them  which  we  have^,  hec 
was  affured  tijat  there  would  havcbeenc 
many  thoufands  of  Proteftants  more 
there,  then  now  there  are  :  and  yet  our 


before  the  J{ings  Adajefly.    3  9 

men  ftamble  and  ftraine  at  thefe  petty 

quillets,  thereby  to  difturbc  and  diigrace 

the  whole  Church. 

After  this  the  D.  moved  that  this  pro-    ^^ 
pofition,  The  intention  of  the  Miniftcr 
is  not  of  the  cflence  of  the  Sacrament, 
might  be  added  unto  the  Booke  of  Ar- 
ticles ^  the  rather  becauie  that  Ibme  in 
England  had  preached  it  to  bee  eflentiall. 
And  here  againe  he  remembred  the  nine 
^^  Orthodoxail   aflertions  concluded  at 
^^ LambctJ\]r\isMaje(Iy  utterly  difliked  that 
"  firft  part  of  the  motion  for  two  realons : 
*^  Firft,  thinking  it  unfit  to  thruft  into  the 
''*' Booke  every  pofition  negative,  which 
**^  would  both  make  the  Booke  fvvell  in- 
'^  to  a  Volume  as  big  as  the  Bible,and  alio 
''  confound  the  Reader  •  bringing  for  e- 
^'  xample  the  courfc  of  one  Wi. Craig  in  the 
'^  like  ca(e  in  Scotland ^  w^ho  with  his,  I  re- 
'^  nounce  and  abhorre,his  dcteftations  3c 
"  abrcnunciations  ,    did  fo  amaze  the 
^^  fimple  people,  that  they ,  not  able  to 

conceive  all  thole  things ,  utterly  gave 



^o  Tl^efumme  of  the  Conference 

"  over  all/allingbacke  to  Popery ;,  or  rc- 
"  maining  dill  in  their  former  ignorance. 
^'^  Yea,  if  I  ,iaid  his  M/je/?)',  (hould  have 
*^'  been  bound  to  his  forme^the  confesfion 
"^'of  my  faith  mud  have  beene  in  myta- 
^'^ble-booke^notinmyhead.  But  becaulc 
"  you  fpeake  of  Intention  ,  faith    his 
'^  Hi^hnejfe^  I  will  apply  it  thus.  If  you 
*'  come  hither  with  a  good  intention,  to 
^'  be  informed,66  latisfied  where  you  flial 
^^  findejuftcaule,  the  whole  worke  will 
^^  Con  to  the  better  effecSt  •  but  if  your  In- 
^^tentionbetogoe  as  you  came  (  what- 
*'^  foever  fhall  bee  (aid  )  it  will  prove  that 
"  the  Intention  is  verymateriall^and  eflens 
^^  tiall  to  the  end  ofthis  preftnt  adtion.To 
the  other  part  for  the  nine  Aflertions,  his 
Majejiy,  could  not  fuddenly  anRver ,  be- 
cauie  hee  underftood  not  what  the  Do- 
ctor meant  by  thofe  Aflertions  or  Pro- 
pofitions  at  Lambeth  j  but  when  it  was 
informed  his  Maje[1y ,  that  by  reafonof 
fome  controverfieS;,  arifing  in  Qamhrldge, 
about  certaine  points  of  Divinity,  my 


before  the  Kipg^  Majefty.   4.1 

Lords  Grace  aflembled  (bme  Divines  of 
efpeciall  noce^  to  fee  downe  their  opini- 
ons^ which  they  drew  into  nine  AiTerti- 
ons,  and  fo  ient  them  to  the  Univerficy^ 
for  theappeafing  of  thole  quarrells  ,•  then 
hisMajejJy  anfwered  j  Firft^  that  when 
fuch  qiieftions  arile  among  SchoUers^  the 
quieteft  proceeding  were,  to  dciermine 
them  in  the  Llriverfities  ,  and  not  to 
ftiiffe  the  Booke  with  all  conclufions 
Theologicall.  Secondly ;,the  better  courle 
vvpuld  bee  to  punifh  the  broachers  of 
falle  Do6lrine  ,  as  occafion ,  fhould  bee 
offered  :  for  w^ere  the  Articles  never  Co 
many  and  found,  who  can  prevent  the 
contrary  opinions  of  men  till  they  bee 
heard  f 

Upon  this  the  Deane  of  ^aulcs 
kneeling  downe  y  humblie  defired 
leave  to  fpeake  ,  lignifying  unto  his 
Mj/ViT),  that  this  matter  Ibmewhat 
more  nearely  concerned  him  ;,  by  rea- 
Ion  of  controverfie  betweene  him 
and  Ibmc  other  in   Camhrtdge ,  upon  a 

G  propofitioUj 

41  The  Jpinme  of  the  Conference 

prppofition ,  which  hec  had  dchvered 
there-Namely^thac  whofbever  ( although 
before  juftificd  )  did  commie  any  grie- 
vous fin,  as  Adukery;,Murder,Treafon,or 
the  like  ^did  become^  tpfo  faclo^  (ubje6l  to 
Gods  vvrath^and  guilty  of  damnation^  or 
were  in  ftate  of  damnation  (quoad  prmt^ 
fentem  [latum  )  untill  they  repented  j  ad- 
ding hereunto ,  that  thole  which  were 
called  and  juftified  according  to  the  pur- 
pole  of  Gods  eledtion,  howlbever  they 
might,  and  did;,  fometime  fall  into  grie- 
vous fins ,  and  thereby  into  the  prelent 
ftate  of  wrath  and  damnation  ,•  yet  did 
never  fall^either  totally  from  all  the  gra- 
ces of  God  to  bee  utterly  deftitute  of  all 
the  parts  and  feed  thereof,   nor  finally 
from  juftification,  but  were  in  time  re- 
newed^by  Gods  Spirit^unto  a  lively  faith, 
aind  repentance  ^  and  fb  juftified  from 
thofe finneSp and  the  wrath,  curft,  and 
guilt  annexed  thereunto, whereinto  they 
are  fallen,  and  wherein  they  lay ,  fo  long 
^s  they  were  without  true  repentance 


before  the  K^ngs  Majesty.   43 

for  the  (ame.  Againft  which  Do Arine^hee 
laid ,  that  fome  had  opppfed  ,  teaching, 
that  all  llich  perfbns  as  were  once  truly 
juftifiedjthough  after  th:y  fell  into  never 
io  grievous  fins ,  yet  remained  ftill  juft, 
or  in  the  ftate  of  juftification;,  before  they 
adually  repented  of  thole  fins  j  yea^,  and 
though  they  never    repented  of  them^ 
through  forgerfulnefie  or  fodaine  death, 
yet  they  fhould  bee  juftified  and  faved 
without  repentance.    In  utter  diflike  of 
*'*'this  Dodlrine,  his  Mj;>/?)ientredintoa 
^^  longer  ipeech  of  Prcdeftination,  and  re- 
^^  probation/han  beforehand  of  the  necef- 
"  lary  conjoyning  repentance  &  hoUnefle 
'^  of  life  with  true  faith  :  concluding,  that 
''^  it  was  hypocrifie,and  not  true  juftifying 
"faith, which  was  fevered  firom  them:  for 
^^'^  although  Predeftination  and  Ele6lion 
"  depend  not  upon  any  qualities,a(5tions, 
^"^  or  worksof  man^which  bemutable,but 
"^  upon  God  his  eternall  &  immutable  de- 
'^^  crec  and  purpofe^yet  fiich  is  the  necesfity 
'^'^  of  repentance,  after  knowne  fins  com- 
Gi  mitted. 

44-  Thefummeofthe  Conference 

'^micted,as  that,  without  it^therc  could 
^^  not  be,  eyther  reconciliation  with  God^ 
^^or  remisfion  ofthofe  fins. 

Next  to  this,  D.  ^inolds  complained^ 
that  the  Catechifme  in  the  Common 
Prayer  Booke,was  too  briefe ;,  for  which 
one  by  M  .  NoH^ell  late  Dcane  of  Tauls 
was  added ;,  and  that  too  long  for  young 
Novices  to  learne  by  heart  •  requefted 
therefore;,  that  one  uniforme  Catechifme 
might  be  made,  which;,  and  none  other, 
might  bee  generally  received ,  it  was  de- 
manded of  him,  whether  if,  to  the  fliort 
Catechifiiie  in  the  Communion  Booke, 
fbmethingw^ere  added  for  the  Dodtrine 
of  the  Sacrament,  it  would  not  lervc  ?  His 
Majejly  thought  the  Dodors  requeft  ve- 
ry reaibnable :  but  yet  (b,  that  hee  would 
"  have  a  Catechifme  in  the  fewefl  Sc  plai- 
^'  ncft  affirmative  termes  that  may  be: tax- 
^^  ing  withal,  the  niiber  of  ignorant  Cate- 
*^  chifines  fet  out  in  Scotland ^  by  every  one 
^^  that  was  the  Son  of  a  Good  man :  in(b- 
^^  much,  as,  that  which  was  Catechifme 


before  the  K^gs  ^itAdajejiy.  45 

doiStriae  in  one  Congregation^pW^isin 
another  ,  Icarcely  iic<:epted  as  found 
and  Orthodox  ;  wiflied  therefore,  one 
to  bee  made  and  agreed  upon,  adding 
this  excellent,  gnornicall  and  Canon-, 
like  Conclufion,  that  in  reforming  of 
a  Church ,  hee  would  have  two  rules 
oblerved  ^  firft  that  old ,  curious,  deepe 
and  intricate  queftions  might  bee  a- 
voided  in,  the  fundamental!  inftrudli- 
on  of  a  people.  Secondlv^  that  there 
fliould  not  bee  any  (uch  departure  from 
thePapifts  in  all  things,  as  that;,bccaufe 
Uveein  (bme  points  agree  with  them; 
^  therefore  we  fhould  be  accounted  tote 
in  error.  ' 

To  the  former,  Dodlor  Remolds  did 
adde  the  prophanation  of  the  Sabbath 
day^and  contempt  of  his  Maje/iies  Procla- 
mation, made  for  the  reforming  of  that 
abuft,  of  which  hee  earneftly  defired  a 
ftraighter  courie  for  reformation  thereof, 
and  unto  this  he  found  a  generall  and  ua^ 
animous  alTent  ..c>il^ 

G  }  Aftet 

^6  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

After  thac,hce  moved  his  Majefly ,  that 
there  might  bee  a  new  Tranflation  of  the 
Bible,becaure,thofe  which  were  allowed 
in  the  reigne  of  King  Henry  the  Eighty 
and  Ed-^pard  the  fixt,  were  corrupt ,  and 
not  anfwerabletothe  truth  of  the  Origi- 
nail.  For  example,  firft^  Galatians  4.  25. 
the  Greke  word  <rv^iyj?',  is  noc  well  tran- 
flated,  as  now  it  is ;  Bordereth ,  neyther 
expresfing  the  force  of  the  word,  nor  the 
Apoftles  fenic,  nor  the  fituation  of  the 

Secondly,  Tfalme  105.  28.  They  were 
not  obedient ;  The  originall  being,  They 
were  noc  difobedient. 

Thirdly,  TJalme  106.  ver(e  30.  Then 
flood  up  Thinees  and  prayed  ,  the  He- 
brew hath  ,  Executed  judgement.  To 
which  motion,there  was,  at  the  prcftnt, 
no  gainfaying,  the  objedions  being  tri- 
vial!, and  old,  and  already  in  print ,  of- 
ten anlwered  j  onely  my  Lord  of  London 
well  added,  that  if  every  mans  humor 
fhould  be  followed,  there  would  bee  no 


before  the  I{ings  Adajejly.  47 

'^end  of  cranflating. Whereupon  his  High- 
^^ nejje  wiQied,  that  fome  efpeciall  paines 
*^  fhoLild  bee  taken  in  that  behalfe  fot  one 
^^  uniforme  tranflation(profesfing  that  he 
^^  could  never,yet,lee  a  Bible  well  tranfla- 
^^i^mEnglip?^  but  the  worft  of  all  his 
^^  Majefty  thought  the  Gc?teVa  to  bee )  and 
*^*'this  to  bee  doneby  thebeft  learned  in 
^'  both  the  Univeriities,  after  them  to  bee 
'^'^  reviewed  by  the  Bifhops,  and  the  chiefe 
**^  learned  of  the  Church ;  from  them  to  be 
^^  prclentcd  to  the  Privy  Counceljand  laft- 
'^  ly,to  be  ratified  by  his  Royall  authcwity^ 
*^'  and  Co  this  whole  Church  to  be  bound 
unto  it^and  none  other :  Mary,  wichall, 
he  gave  this  caveat  (  upon  a  word  cart 
out  by  my  Lord  of  Lo?/£^ow)  that  no  Mar- 
ginal! Notes  fhould  be  added  ;>  having 
^^  found  in  them  which  are  annexed  to  the 
^^  Geneva  tranflation  (which  hee  law  in  a 
^^  Bible  given  him  by  an  E)igltp?  Lady  ) 
'^  IbmeNotes  very  partially  untrue,  fediti- 
^^  ous,  and  favouring  too  much  of  dange- 
^^rous,  and  traiterous  conceits.  As  for  ex- 

4-8  TIjefumme  of  the  Conference 

'*^  ample,  the  fir  ft  Chapter  oi  Exodus  and 
^^  the  nineteenth  Ver(e,where  the  margi- 
*:^rnall  Note  alloweth  Dilobedience  unto 
"  King.And  i.  Chro.i^^  \6.  the  note  taxeth 
^^  ^fa  for  depofing  his  mother,  onely,and 
^^inot  kilUng  her  :  And  (b  concludeth  this 
^^  point  as  all  the  reft,\vith  a  grave  and  ju- 
*^^  dicious  advice.  Firft^  that  errors  in  mat- 
^^  ters  of  Faith  might  bee  rectified  and 
^'amended.  Secondly ;,  that  matters  in- 
^'  different  might  rather  be  interrupted, 6c 
^^  a  gloffe  added ;  alleaging  from  Oartolus 
^^  de  reg;7io,that,as  better  a  King  with  (bme 
^^  weakneffe,  than  ftill  a  change- lb  rather 
^^  a  Church  with  Ibme  faults^thaan  fnho- 
'^  vation. And  fiirely,  faith  his  Majejiy ,  if 
^^  theie  be  the  greateft  matters  you  be  grie- 
^'  ved  withal  heed  not  have  been  troubled 
^^  with  fitch  importunites  3c  complaints, 
^^  as  have  beene  made  unto  me  •  Ibme  o- 
^'^ther  more  private  courle  might  have 
^^  beene  taken  for  your  fatisfadion,  and 
'^  withall ,  looking  upon  the  Lords,  hee 
^^^niookehis  head,lmiling. 


before  the  Icings  Majesty.   ^^ 

The  kft  point  (  noted  by  Dodor     g 
^tnolds )  in  this  firfl:  head,  for  Doctrine, 
was^  that  unlawful!  and  (editious  Books 
might  bee  fupprefled,  at  leaft  reftained, 
and  imparted  to  a  few:  forbythehber- 
ty  of  pubhfhing  fuch  Bookes,  fb  com- 
monly ,  many  young  SchoUers^  and  un- 
letled  minds  in  both  Llniverfities  ^  and 
through  the  whole  Realme ,  were  cor- 
rupted and  perverted  ;  naming  for  one 
inllance ,  that  Booke  entituled ,  J)e  ju- 
re Ma^iflrcitus  in  Suhditos ,  publiflied  of 
late  ,   by  Fklerus  a  Papift;,  and  applied 
-    againft  the   Queenes  Majefty  that  laft 
was/or  the  Pope  :  The  Bifhop  of  Lon^ 
don  (uppofing^as  it  feemed;,  himlelfc  to  be 
principally  aimed  at ,   anfwered  ,  firft, 
to  the  generall  ,   that  there  was  nodich 
licentious  divulging  of  thole  Bookes ,  as 
hee  imagined  or  complained  of  :  and 
that  none  ^  except  it  were  fuch  as  Do- 
(5lor  (?^/w.  who  were  fuppofed ,  would 
conlumc  them^  had  liberty  by  autho- 
rity to  buy  them  :  Againe  ^  luch  Bookes 
H  canK 

50  Thefumme  of  the  Conference 

came  into  the  Realmc ,  by  many  lecret 
conveiances,  fo  that  there  could  not  bee 
a  perfect  notice  had  of  their  importati- 
on :  Secondly^  to  the  particular  inftance 
ofFiclerus^  heeiaid;,  that  the  Author  T>e 
jure  ^  <s*c.   was  a  great  Difciplinarian  . 
whereby  it  did  appeare  y  w^hat  advantage 
chat  fort  gave  unto  the  Papifts;,  whoww- 
tatis  ferfonis  ,  could  apply  their  owne 
Arguments  againft  Princes  of  the  Reli- 
gion :  but  for  his  owne  part  hee  laid  ^  hee 
detefted  both  the  Author ,  and  the  Appli- 
er  alike.  My  Lord  Clctll  here  taxing  alio 
the  unlimited  liberty  of  the  dilperfing 
and  divulging  thele'  Popifh  and  ieditious 
Pamphlets  ,  both  in  ^auls  Qmrch-yard^ 
andtheUniverfities,  inftanced  one  late- 
ly let  forth  ,  and  publiflied  •  namely, 
SpeculumTragicuniy  which  both  his  Ma-^ 
jely  and  the  Lord.H  Hon^ard^  now  Earle 
of  Northampton  ,  termed  a   dangerous 
Booke  both  for  matter  and  intention  : 
and  the  Lord  Chancellor ,  alio  dividing 
all  fuch  Bookcs  into  Latine  and  Engl'tjh^ 


before  the  Icings  Majesty.   51 

concluded^  that  theft  laft  ,  difpcrftd,  did 
mod   harme  :  yet  the  Lord  Secrctaric 
affirmed;,  that  my  Lord  of  London  had 
done  therein  what  might  be ,  for  the  fup^ 
presfingofthcm^and  that  hee  knew  no 
man  el(e  ,  had  done  any  thing  in  that 
"kindebuthee.  At  lengthy  itpleaftdhis 
^'^  excellent  iA/iy>/?)',totcll  D.^t'/«.  that  hee 
was  a  better  Colledge-man  then  a  States 
man  •  for  if  his  meaning  werc,totax  die 
^^  Bifhop  "of  London  ,  for  iliffering  thofc 
*^'^bookeS;,bctvveene  the  Secular  Priefts,  dc 
^^  lediitcs  lately  publifhed ,  (b  freely  to 
*'*' pafTe  abroad  ,•  His  Majejly  would  have 
^"^  him  and  his  AflTociates  to  know ,  and 
^•^  willed  them  alfo  to  acquaint  their  adhc- 
*^''  rents  and  friends  abroad  therewith;,thac 
^'^  the  (aid  Bifhop  was  much  injured  and 
^'  flandered  in  that  behalfc,  who  did  no- 
^'' thing  therein,  but  by  warrant  from  the 
"  Lords  of  the  Councell,  whereby^  both 
^^  a  Schifme  betweene  them  was  nouri- 
"  died,  and  alfo  his  Majeflies  ownc  caufe 
"and  Title  handled  ;  the  Lord  (la/ affir- 
H  2  ming 


5Z  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

ming  thereunto,  that  therefore  they  were 
tolerated^  becaufe;,  in  thenl;,  was  the  Title 
of S/?4/?/e  confuted*  The  L.  Treafurer  ad^ 
ded;  that  Doctor  ^In,   might  have  ob- 
ferved  another  ufe  of thofc  Bookes  j  yi:^, 
that  now  by  the  Teflimonie  of  thole 
Priefts  themlHveS;,   her  late  Maj efy  2ini 
the  State  were  cleared  of  that  imputati- 
on y  of  putting  Papifts  to  death  ,  for 
their  confciences  onely  ,   and  for  their 
Relligion^feeing;, intholc Bookes  y  they 
themfelves  confefle  ^  that  they  were  exe- 
cuted for  treaibn.  D.  5^m.  excufedhim- 
felfe  ,  expounding  his  complaint  ^    not 
meant  of  filch  bookeS;,  as  had  bin  printed 
in  Bnglandyhuz  fiichas  came  from  beyond 
the  Seas^as  Commentaries  both  in  Philo- 
fophy  and  Divinity.  And  thcfe  were  the 
parts  of  the  firfl;  head ;,  concerning  Purity 


before  the  I^^g^  Adajejly.    55 

To  the  fecond  generall  point  concer- 
ning the  planting  of  Minifters  learned  in 
every  Paridi^it  pleafed  his  Majefly  to  an^ 
fwer^  that  he  had  confuked  with  his  Bi- 
fliops  about  that,  whom  he  found  wil- 
"  ling  and  ready,  to  fecond  him  in  it :  in- 
"  veighing  herein ,  againft  the  negligence 
''^ajid  carelefheflepwhich  he  heard  of  many 
*^^  in  this  landjbut,  as  Subita  e'Vacuatw^  was 
^^ periculofa^  fb  ftihkci  mutatio.  Therefore 
^^  chis  matter  was  not  for  a  pre(ent  re- 
*^  fblution  ,  becaule  to  appoint  to  every 
*''^Parifli  a  fufficienc  Minifter  were  im- 
^^posfible  ,  the  Liniverfities  would  not 
''afford  them.  Againe  ,  hee  had  found 
^^  already ,  that  he  had  more  learned  men 
'^  in  this  Realme ,  then  hee  had  fufficient 
*^ maintenance  for-  fo  that  maintenance 
^^  mufl:  firft  be  provided;,  and  then  the  o- 
'^  ther  to  be  required  :  In  the  meane  time^ 
*^  ignorant  Minifters^ifyoungjto  be  remo- 
'^  ved,if there  were  no  hope  of  their  amed- 
^^  ment  •  if  old,  their  death  mufl:  bee  expe- 
^^  ded ;,  that  the  next  courft  may  be  better 

H  3  fupplicd 

54-  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

fupplkd  :  and  ib  concluded  this  pointy 
with  a  moft  religious  and  zealous  prote- 
ftation;,  of  doing  ibmething  daily  in  this 
cafe  ,  becaule  lerufalem  could  not  bee 
built  up  in  a  day.  The  Bifliop  oiWrnche- 
y?er  madeknownetothe  K}ng^  that  this 
indifficiency  of  the  Clergy  ^  bee  it  as  it  is^ 
comes  not  by  the  Biflhops  defaults ,  but 
partly  by  Lay  Patrons ,  who  prefent  very 
meane  men  to  their  Cures  ^  whereof  ^  in 
himftlfe,  hee  fliewedan  inftancc,  how 
that  fince  his  being  Bifhop  of  Wtnche- 
sievy  very  few  Mafters  of  Arts ;,  were  pre- 
fented  to  good  Benefices  :  partly ,  by  the 
Law  of  the  land^,  which  admittcth  of  a  ve- 
ry meane  and  tolerable  (ufficiency  in  any 
Gierke,  (b  that  if  theBidiopfliouldnoc 
admit  them^thcn  prefently^ja^wf^r^  impedit, 
islentout  againft  him. 

Here  my  Lord  of  Lonim  ,  kneeling, 
humbly  defired  his  Majefy  (  becauft  hcc 
law,  as  he  faid,  it  w^as  ^  time  of  moving 
Petitions  )  that  hee  might  have  leave ,  to 
^ake  two  or  three.Firft,  that  there  might 


before  the  ^^gs  Majejly.    5  5 

bee  araongft  us  ,   a  Praying  Miniftery 
another  while  j  for  whereas ,  there  are, 
in  the  Miniftery  ,  many  excellent  duties 
to  be  performed ,  as  the  ablblving  of  the 
penirent^prayingfor^and  blesfing  of  the 
people,  admimliring  of  the  Sacraments, 
and  the  like  ;  it  is  come  to  that  pafTe 
now  y  that  lb  me  fort  of  men  thought  it 
the  onely  duty  required  of  a  Minifter  ^  to 
fpend  the  time  in  fpeaking  out  of  a  Pul- 
pit .  fbmetimes ,  God  wot^  veiy  undiH 
creetly and unlcarnedly  :  and  this,  with 
fb  great  injury  and  prejudice,  to  the  cele- 
bration of  Divine  fervice ,  that  fomeMi- 
nifters  would  be  content  towalke  in  the 
Church=yard ,  till  Sermon  time  ,  rather 
then  to  be  prefent  at  publike  prayer.  Hee 
confefled,  that  in  a  Church  new  to  bee 
planted  ^  preaching  was  mofi:  neceffary ; 
but  among  us ,  now  long  eftablifhed  in 
the  faith,  hee  thought  it  not  the  onely  ne- 
ceffary duty  to  be  performed  ,  and  the  o- 
ther  to  bee  lb  profanely  neglected  and 
'•^contemned.  Which  motion  his  ;V-%^/'7>' 


5(5  ^hefumme  of  the  Conference 

'^  liked  exceeding  well ,  very  acutely  tax- 
ing the  hypocrifie  of  our  times ,  which 
placeth  all  Religion  in  the  eare,  through 
which,  there  is  an  eafie  paflage  ,  but 
^^  Praier,  which  exprefleth  the  hearts  af- 
^^  fection^and  is  the  true  devotion  of  the 
'^minde,  as  a  matter  putting  ustoovcr- 
^^  much  trouble  ( wherein  there  concurre, 
^^  ifpraier  be  as  itought;,an  unpartiall  con-' 
^^  fideration  of  our  owne  eftates ,  a  due  c- 
^^  xamination  to  whom  wee  pray  ;,  an 
^^  humble  confesfion  of  our  fins,  with  an 
*^^  hearty  Ibrrow  for  them  ;  and  repen- 
"  tance  not  fevered  from  faith  )  is  ac* 
^^  counted  and  uied  as  the  leaft  part  of  Re- 

The  ftcond  was  ,  that  till  fiich  time 
as  learned  and  fufficient  men  might  bee 
planted  in  every  Congregation  ,  that, 
godly  Homilies  might  bee  read ,  and  the 
number  of  them  increaftd,  and  that  the 
Opponents  would  labour  to  bring 
them  into  credit  againe  ,  as  formerly 
they  brought  them  into  contempt.  Eve- 

before  the  K^ngs  Majes/y.     5  7 

ryMan  ( faith  hec  )  that  can  pronounce 
well^cannot  indite  well. 
*^^      The  Kings  Mdjejly  approved   this 
^^  motion;,  efpecially,  where  the  Uving  is 
^'  not  (iifficient  for  maintenance  of  a  lear- 
^'  ned  Preacher  ,•  as  alfo  in  places^  where 
^^  plenty  of  Sermons  are;,  as  in  the  City,<Sc 
'■'^  great  Townes.  In  theCountrey  villa- 
^'  ges  where  Preachers  are  notnearetoge- 
"^'ther.he  could  wifliPreachincr.butwher 
^'^  there  are  a  multitude  of  Sermons,  there 
^^  he  would  have  Homilies  to  be  read  di- 
*''■  vers  times  :  and  therein  hee  asked  the 
'^adentofthe  Plaintitfes  ,  and  they  con- 
fefle  it.   A  preaching  Minifteiy;,  faith 
his  MajeHy  ,  was  beft ,  but  where  it 
might  not  be  had^godly  prayers  and  ex- 
^^  hortations  did  much  good.   That  that 
^^  may  be  donC;,  let  it ;,  and  let  the  reft  that 
*^*^ cannot;,  be  tolerated:  Somewhat  was 
here  Jpokeu    by  the  Lord    Chancellor^ 
of  livings  rather  wanting  learned  Men^ 
then  learned  Men  livings.  Many  in  the 
Univerficies  pining;,  Mafters^BacchelorS;, 

I  and 

5-8  The  fmme  of  the  Conference 

and  upwards  :  wifhing  therefore^,  that 
Ibme  mighthavefinglecoates,  before  o- 
ther  had  dublets,  and  here  his  L.  flbewed 
thecourfc;,  that  he  had  ever  taken^  inbe- 
ftowing  the  Kings  Benefices,  my  Lord 
of  London  ^  commending  his  Honoura- 
ble care  that  way;,  withall  excepted  that  a 
dublet  was  neceffary  in  cold  weather  : 
the  h.Chancelor  replied ,  that  hee  did  it 
not  for  diflike  of  the  liberty  of  our 
Church,  in  granting  one  Man  two  Bene- 
fices, but  out  of  his  owne  private  purpofe 
and pra(ft:i(ej groundedupon  the  fore(aid 

The  laft  motion,by  my  Lord  of  London 
was ,  that  Pulpits  might  not  bee  made 
palquils,  wherein  every  humorous ,  or 
dilcontented  fellow  might  traduce  his 
fuperiors.  Which  the  King  very  graciouP- 
"  ly  accepted,  exceedingly  reproving  that, 
^'  as  a  lewd  cuftomc;  thr€atning,that  if  he 
'"^  mould  but  heare  of  (iich  a  one  in  a  PuU 
^^  pit,  hee  would  make  him  an  example : 
*^*^  concluding  with  a  ftge  admonition  to 





before  the  K^ngs  Majesty.     5p 

^^  the  opponents,  that  every  Manfliould 
^^/blicite  and  draw  his  friends  to  make 
peace ;,  and  if  any  thing  were  amiffe  in 
the  Church  officers,  not  to  make  the 
Pulpit  the  place  of  perfonall  reproof^ 
^^  but  to  let  his  Majejiy  hearc  of  it.  :  yet  by 

Firft,  let  complaint  be  to  the  Ordina- 
ry of  the  place ,  from  him  to  goe  to  the 
Archbifliop  ;  from  him,to  the  Lords  of 
"  hhMajefttcs  Coun(ell,andfromthem,if 
^^  in  all  the(e  places  no  remedy  is  found^to 
'^'^  his  owne  lelfe,  which  caveat  his  Majc^ 
fiy  put  in ,  for  that  the  Bifliop  of  London 
had  told  him  that  if  he  left  himfelfe  open 
to  admit  of  all  complaints,  neither  his 
Majefty  fhould  ever  bee  quiet,  nor  his  un- 
der-officers  regarded  :  feeing ,  that  now 
already  no  fault  can  be  cenfiired,  but  pre- 
ftntly  the  Delinquent  threatneth  a  com- 
plaint to  the  Kjfig  :  and  for  an  inftance, 
he  added,  how  a  Printer,  whom+ieehad 
taken  faulty,  very  lately  anfwered  hi^m  in 
that  very  kindci  '  ^        -  f- 

1 2  D.%;;. 

6o  Tloefumme  of  the  Conference 

D.  ^in.  commtth  now  to  Subfcripti^ 
on^  ( which  concerneth  the  iomihgemrnll 
head^as  he  firft  propounded  it ;,  namely^ 
Tlje  communion 'Booke^   )  taking  occafion 
to  leape  into  it  here;,as  making  the  urging 
of  it  to  bee  a  great  impeachment  to  a 
learned  Miniftery,   and  therefore  intrea- 
ted^it  might  not  be  exacted  as  heretofore^ 
for  which  many  good  Men  were  kept 
out,other  removed ,  and  manydiiquie- 
ted.   To  fubfcribe  according  to  the  fta- 
tutesoftheReahne,  namely,  to  the  Ar- 
ticles of  Religion  ^  and  the  Kings  Supre- 
macy ,they  were  not  unwilling.  The  rea- 
Ibn  of  their  backwardnefle  to  fubfcribe 
otherwife  was ,  firft  the  Booke  ^pochry^ 
fhall;  w^hich  the  QommonJfrayer  'Booke  en- 
joyned  to  bee  read  in  the  Church;,  albeit, 
there  are  ^   in  fbme  ofthoft  Chapters  ap- 
pointed manifeft  errors ,   dired:ly  repug- 
nant to  the  Scriptures :  the  particular  in- 
ftance>,  *  which  hee  then  inferred  was^ 
Ecclef,  48,  los  where  bee  charged  the 
Author  of  that  Booke  ,  to  have  held 


before  the  Kjpgs  AdLajeflj.    €i 

the   lame  opinion  with  the  /(?Tb«   at 
this  Day^namely,  that  £//^,  in  perfon^ 
was  to  come  before  Chiift^    and  there- 
fore as  yet  Chrift  by  that  reafbn  ,   not 
comeintheflcflijand  lb;,  conlequently, 
it  imply ed  a  deniall  of  the  chiefe  Article 
of  our  redemption  :  his  rpalon  of  thus 
charging  the  Author ,  was,  be^aule  that 
Ecclns  y  u(ed  the  very  word  odBt'uu  in 
perjouy  which  the  Prophet  M^^^ci;j,  Cap. 
4.  dochapplyto  an£//W  inrelemblancC;, 
which  both  an  Angeli,  Luke  17.  and  our 
Saviour  Chrift^Mtf.  u.  didJnterprec;to 
h^John  Sapti^i.  The  anfwerwas,,  as  the 
obje<5tion,  twofold.    Firfl,  generally  for 
^pocrjpha  Sookes  ;  The  Bifliop  q(  Lon- 
don fhewing,  firft^   for  the  antiquity  of 
them  ,  that  the   moft  of  the  objedi- 
ons  made  againft  thole  Books  were  the 
old  Cauils  of  the  leyi^es  ,.renew^€d  by 
S Jerome  in  his  time;,  who  was  thcfirft 
that  gave  them  the  name  of  yfpochry^ 
pha  y  which  opinion  ,   upon  %ijfims 
hio  challenge,  hee^  after  a  Ibrtpdifclaimed, 

I  3  the 

6z  TJye  ftirnme  of  the  Conference 

the  rather ,  becaule  a  generall  offence  was 
taken  at  his  fpeeches  in  that  kinde,  Firft, 
for  the  continuance  of  them  i  n  the  Church 
out  of I:\jmedoncius ,  and  Chemnitius^  two 
moderne  writers. 

The  Bifhop  of  Wmton  remembred  the 
diftindlion  of  S.  lerome ,  Canontcifunt  ad 
informandos  mores  ,  non  ad  confirmandam 
fidem;KNh\c\\  diftindtion  he  (aid,  muft  be 
held  fot-1*}je'juftifying  of  fundryCoun- 
"  eels.  His  MajcUy  in  the  end ,  (aid  ,  hee 
^'  would  take  an  even  order  betweene 
*"'  b"oth,affirniing,that  he  would  not  wifli 
-^■^li  £anon'tcall  bookes  to  bee  read  in  the 
^^-Church^unleflTe^chere  were  one  to  intcr- 
^^  pret^nor.any  J'pochrypha  dt  all,  wherein 
*^' there  was  any  error,  but  forthe  other^ 
^^  which  were  cleare,  and  corre(pondent 
^^  to  the  Scriptures,  he  would  have  them 
^'rcad,  forel(e,  (aithhis  MajeUy  ,  why 
^"^  were  they  printed  ?  and  therein  (hewed 
"  the  u(e  of  the  bookes  ofMachabees^  very 
^^  good  to  make  up  the  ftory  of  the  per(c- 
^^cution  of  the  lems  -^  but  not  to  teach  a 


before  the  Kij^gs  Majejly.    <Jj 

^*^man  either  to  Sacrifice  for  the  deadp  or 

And  here  his  Highnejfe  arofe  from  his 
chaire  ^  and  withdrew  him(elfe  into  his 
inner  chamber  a  httlefpace^  in  the  meane 
time  a  great  cjueftioning  was  amongft 
the  Lords/ ,  abovit  that  place  of  Ecclcf. 
with  which  as  if  it  had  beene  their  reft 
and  uplliotjthey  began  a  frefh^  at  his  Mr^ 
''^'efZ/cj- returne  •  who;,  leeing  them  ^o  to 
'*^uxge  it;,  atid  ftandupon  it,caUingfora 
^'^  Bible ;,  firft  (hewed  the  Author  of  that 
*^  booke,who  he  was,then  the  caufe^jwhy 
'^  hee  wrote  that  booke,  next  analized  the 
^/Chapter  itfeife;,fliewingthe  precedents 
^^  and  conlequents  thereof-  laftly ,  fo  ex- 
^'2idi\y  and  Divine  hke  ,  unfolded  the 
*^'' fummc  of  that  place,  arguing,  ajadde^ 
**^monftrating,that  whatfoever  Se/z  Sirach 
^'  had  (aid  there,  of  Ellas ^  Ellas  had  in  his 
'*  owne  perfbn^while  he  lived^^perf  pr^-ned 
*^  and  accomplifhed,  fo  that  the  Sujurrus^ 
"  at  the  firft  mention^was  not  fb  great,  as 
l^^theaftonifhment  was  now"  at  the  K^ng 


6^  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

*^^  his  fodaine  and  (bund ,  and  indeed^fb 
*^'  admirable  an  interpretation  ;  conclu- 
*'  ding  J  firft,  with  a  ftrious  checke  to  Do- 
^^  <5tor  <^indlds ,  that  it  Was  not  good  to 
^'^uTipofe  upon  a  Man  ,  that  Was  dead ;,  a 
^'fenfe  n^ver  mentby  him  *-  Secondly, 
^^  with  a  pleafant  yfpofiro[>he  to  the  Lordsj 
"  What;,trow  yee,  make  thefe  Men  fo  an- 
^^  gJ^y  with  Ecdeftajiicns  ?  By  my  ibule^  I 
-^thinkehewasa  Bifhop  ;,  or  elie  they 
^^  would  never  ufe  him  Co.  But  for  thege- 
"  nerall,  it  was  appointed  by  his  Majefiy] 
^^that  Do6lor  ^in,  fliould  note  th oft 
^^  Chapters  miht ^pochrypha  hooke,  where 
^^  thole  offenfive  places  were,  and  iliould 
^^  bring  them  unto  the  Lord  J^rchhijhop  of 
^^ Canterbury  againft  ^e^wyS^j  next,  and 
'^  lb  he  was  wiMed  to  gi)e  on. 

The  next  Scruple  againft  Suhfcription 
Was  :  ^2iio\A  Qramhe  his poftta ,  that  in 
the  common  Pi'ayer  Booke  ,  it  is  twile 
ftt  downe  ^  lejus  'ftid  to  his  Difciples  j 
when  as  by  the  next  originall  it  is  plaine  ,• 
t]\3,tho  fpah  to  the  Tharifees,   To  which 


before  the  K^ngs  Majesty.     6s 

it  was  anfwered  ,  that  for  ought  that 
could  appeare  by  the  places  ,  hce  might 
ipeakeaivvelltohis  Difct^ks ,  theybeinc^ 
prefcnt;,as  to  the  Tharifces.  But  his  Mr 
yV/?> keeping  an  even  hand,  willed  that 
the  word  J)tfc'tples  fliould  bee  omitted, 
and  the  words  lejus  fa'id,  to  be  printed  in 
a  different  letter,  chat  might  appeare,  not 
to  be  a  part  of  the  Text. 

The  third  obje6lion  againft  Snhjcriiu 
tiouy  "w^XQ  Inter  rogatories  m^aj^t  I  jmc,  pro- 
pounded to  Infants,  which  being  a  pro- 
found point,  was  put  upon  MJ\jiewJlubs 
ro  purfiie  :  who  in  a  long  and  perplexed 
ipeech,(aid  fomething  out  oij'uskn^  that 
^aptl^nre  was  credere ,  but  what  it  was, 
his  Maje^y  plainely  confcfled  ,  Ego  non 
intelligo,  and  asked  the  Lords  what  they 
thought  hec  meant  ;  it  ftemed  that  one 
prefent  conceived  him ,  for  hee  ftanding 
at  his  backc,  bade  him  urge  that  pundt, 
urge  that  pun<5l ,  that  is  a  good  point. 
My  Lord  of  Winton  ayraing  at  his  mea- 
ning ^  flicwed  him  the  ufe  thereof  out  of 

K  Saint 

66  The^umme  of  the  Conference 

Saint  JuHen ,  and  added  the  Fathers  rea- 
fbn  for  it  ^  Q^i  peccauit  in  altero ,  credat  in 
altero  j  which  was  leconded  by  his  Mac 
jeHy  (  whom  it  pleaftd  ,    for  the  reft  of 
the  matters  which  followed  ,  himfelfe 
alone  to  anfwer  ^  and  juftly  might  hee 
appropriate  it  to  him(elfe ,  for  none  prc^ 
fentwere  ablc;,  with  quicker  conceit  to 
iinderftand,   with  a  more  fingular  dexte- 
rity to  refute  ,  with  a  more  judicious  re- 
Iblution  to  determine ,  then  his  MajeUy  : 
herein  being  more  admirable ,   that  thele 
points,  wherein  (bme  thought  him  pre- 
judicial! to  the  contrary,  allofus  (iippo- 
"  fed  him  to  have  beene  but  a  ftranger  to 
'^  them ,  he  could  fo  inteUigerttly  appre- 
^*^  hend  and  lb  readily  argue  about  them, ) 
f;  it  was jl  fay^feconded  by  his  Maj ejiy- fivd^ 
^'  reafon  that  the  queftion  ihould  be 
^^  propounded  to  whom  it  prin- 
"  cipally  concerned  ^- Secondly  ^by  example 
'"^  of  himfelft  to  whom  interrogatories 
*"•  were  propounded  when  he  w^as  crow- 
•^^^ncd  in  his  infancy  j  IQn^  of  Scotland, 


before  the  E^n^s  Majesty.     6y 

And  heere  his  Majejiy^  (  as  hereafter  ac 
the  end  of  every  objection  he  did  )  asked 
them  whether  they  had  any  more  to  lay. 

M.  I'QiewHubs  tooke  exceptions  to  the      - 
CrofTein  Baptilnie  ,   beeing  in  number      •" 
two.    Firft^  the  offence  of  Weake  bre-     i 
thren  ,  grounded    upon  the  words  of 
S/Pauly  (^w.14.  and  i  Cor.^M::^  the  con- 
fciencesofthe  Weake  ,  not  to  bee  offen- 
ded :  w^hich  places  his  excellent  Majejly 
anfvvered  mofl  acutely^  beginning;  with 
that  generall  rule  of  the  Fathers  :  D'tfi'm^ 
^^ g^ue  tempora^ ,  <(s*  co?ic&rdabnnt  Scriptune^ 
'^  fhewing  heere  the  difference  of  thole 
^^  times  and  ours,then  a  Church  not  fully 
^'  planted,  nor  letled,  but  ours  long  ftabli- 
^''fhedand  flouriflhingj  then  Chriftians 
^*^  newly  called  from  Paganifine,  and  not 
^^  throughly  grounded  •  which  is  not  the 
''  cafe  of  this  Church,  feeing  that  Heathc- 
^^  niflh  Do6trine,   for  many  yecres  hath 
^^  beene  hence  abandoned.Secondly,with 
"  a  queftion  unanlwerable ,  asking  them 
^^  how  long  they  would  be  Wcake  ?  whe- 

K  2  ther 


6%  Thejumme  of  the  Conference 

^^  ther  45.  yeereswerc  not  fufficient  for 
'^'' them  to  grow  ftrong  ?  fourthly,  who 
^^  they  were  pretended  this  weakenefTe  : 
'^  For  we/aith  the  i(j>2^, require  not  now 
^'  Subicription  of  Laikes  and  Idiots^  but 
Preachers  and  Minifters^  who  are  not 
ftill  J  troWpto  be  fed  with  milke^but  are 
^^  enabled  to  feedc  others  -fourthly,  that  it 
was  to  be  doubted ,  fome  of  them  were 
ftrong  enough^  if  not  headftrong ,  and 
howfoever  they  in  this  cale  pretended 
"  WeakenefTe,  yet  fome,  in  whole  behalfe 
"  they  now  Ipake  ^  thought  themlelves 
^^  able  to  teach  him^  and  all  the  Biflhops  of 
''^  the  Land. 

His  objedion  againft  the  Croffe  con- 
fifted  of  three  Interrogatories  •  Firfl:  , 
Whether  the  Church  had  power  to  infti- 
tute  an  externall  fignificant  figne  ?  to 
which  was  replied^firft,  that  he  miftooke 
the  ufeof  the  Croile  with  us,  which  was 
not  u(ed  in  Baptifme,  any  otherwift  then 
onely  as  a  ceremony  :  Secondly,  by  their 
owne  example  ^  who  make  impofition 


before  the  K^gs  Aldjefly.    tf  9 

of  hands  in  their  ordinacion  of  Paftors^ 
to  be  a  figne  fignificant. 

Thirdly^in  prayei';,  faith  the  Bifliop  of 
Winton,  the  kneeHng  on  the  ground;,  the 
lifting  up  of  our  hands  ^  the  knocking  of 
ourbrcfts,  are  Ceremonies  fignificant. 
The  firft,  of  our  humihty  comming  be- 
fore the  mighty  God  •  The  fecond^,  of  our 
confidence  and  hope  j  the  other ,  of  our 
fbrrow  and  deteftation  of  our  fins ,  and 
thele  are^and  may  lawfully  be  uled.  Laft- 
ly^M.  Deane  of  the  Chappell  remembred 
the  pradife  of  the  loi^es,  who  unto  the 
infliitution  of  the  Pafieover  ,  prelcribed 
unto  them  by  Mofes  ,  had,  as  the  Rab- 
bins witneffe  ,  added  both  fignes  and 
words^eating  Ibwre  herbs^,  and  drinking 
wine,  with  thele  words,  to  both.  Take 
and  eat  thele  in  remembrance,&:c.Drinke 
this  in  remembrance,  &c.Upon  which 
addition  and  tradition  of  theirs ,  our  Sar- 
viour  inftituted  the  Sacrament  of  his 
lafl:  Supper  ,  in  celebrating  it  with  the 
iame  words ^  and  after  the  fame  manner  j 

K  3  there- 

70  Thefumme  of  the  Conference 

thereby  approving  that  fa6l  of  theirs  in 
particular,  and  generally  ^  that  a  Church 
mayinftituce  and  tetaine  a  figne  iignifi- 
cant :  which  (atisfied  his  MajeUy  excee- 
ding well.  ',  e/  • 
^^  And  here  the  IQn^  defired  to  have 
^^  himfelfe  made  acquainted  about  the  an- 
^'^  ticjuity  of  the  u(e  of  the  Crofle  ,  which 
D.  ^ynolds  confeflfed  to  have  beene 
ever  lincc  the  Apoftles  times  j  but  this 
was  the  difficulty,  to  prove  it  of  that  an- 
cient u(e  in  Baptifme.  For  that  at  their 
going  abroad  ,  or  entering  into  the 
Church  J  or  at  their  prayers  and  bene- 
didionSjit  was  u(ed  by  the  Ancients^  dc-f 
fired  no  great  proofe  :  But  whether  in 
Baptilme,  Antiquity  approved  it ,  was 
the  doubt  caft  in  by  M.  Deane  of  5^* 
rum  y  whom  his  MajeHy  fingled  out, 
with  a  fpeciall  Encomion ,  that  he  was  a 
Man  well  travelled  in  the  Ancients  : 
which  doubt  was  anfwered  ohfignatis  ta^ 
hulps^hy  the  Dean  oiWejlmMiery  (whom 
the  Kings  Majesty  ,  upon  my  Lord  of 


before  the  K^ngs  Majefly.    y  i 

Lo?2iio«i  motion,  willed  tolpeake  to  that 
point)  out  of  Te/t«//w^z,  Cyprian,  Origen, 
and  others ,  that  it  was  ufed  in  Immor  uu 
li  laVacro:  which  words  being  a  little  def- 
canted,  it  fell  from  one,  I  thinke  it  was 
my  Lord  oiVVjncheUe)\ohneryio  fay,  that 
in  CoyiHantine  his  time  ,  it  was  u(ed  in 
*"'  Baptifme.What quoth  the/Sj«^,and  is  ic 
"  now  come  to  that  palTe,  that  wee  fliall 
^'  appeach  ConUantine  of  Popery ,  and  fu- 
^^  perdition  ?  if  then  it  were  u(ed,(aith  his 
*^  Majejljyl  fee  no  reafon,bLK:  that  ftill  w^e 
^' may  continue  it. 

M.  K^ie'^flubs  his  Second  cjueftion 
was,that  put  cafe  ,  the  Church  had  ilich 
power  to  adde  fignificant  fignes  ^  w^he- 
ther  it  might  there  adde  thern,  where 
Chrifl:  had  already  ordained  one  ^  which 
hee  faid  was  no  leffe  derogatory  ,  to 
Chrifb  inftitucion ,  as  hee  thought,  then 
if  any  potentate  of  this  Land,  fhould  pre- 
*'  fume  to  adde  his  Seale  to  the  great  Scale 
^^  oiBnglantL  To  w^hich  his  Majefly  an- 
^*;lwered/hat  the  cafe  was  not  alike,  for 


7z  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

^'  that  no  figne  or  thing  was  added  to  the 
^''  Sacrament ,  which  was  fully  and  per- 
^^  fedly  finifhed ;,  before  any  mention  of 
"theCroffeis  made^,  for  confirmation 
^'^  whereof,  he  willed  the  place  to  be  read. 
Laftly,  if  the  Church  had  that  power 
alfb^yetthe  greateft  Scruple  to  their  Con- 
Icience  was  ,  how  farre  fuch  an  ordi^ 
nance  of  the  Church  was  to  binde  them, 
^^  without  impeaching  their  Chriftian  Li- 
^^  berty  ?  whereat^,  the  Kjng,  as  it  ftemed,  ^ 
^^  was  much  mooved;,and  told  him ;,  hec 
^'  would  not  argue  that  point  with  him^ 
^^  butanlwer  therein^as  Kings  are  wont  to 
Ipeake  in  Parliament ;,  Le  ^y  s^aVtfera^ 
adding withal^that  it  fmelled  very  rank- 
'^  ly  of  Anabaptifiiie  :  comparing  it  into 
*^' theuiageofabeardleffe  boy,  (  oneM. 
'*'  lohn  ^lack)  who  the  laft  Conference  his 
'^My^^  had  with  the  Minifters  in  Scot^ 
^^  Lvid^  (in  December  }6oi.)  told  him,  that 
^^  hee  would  hold  conformity  with  his 
^^  MajeHies  ordinances,  for  matters  of  do- 
^^  drine :  but  for  matters  of  Ceremonic, 


before  the  K^n^^s  M^jesfy.      75 

^'  they  were  to  be  lefcin  Chriftian  Liberty, 
^*^  to  every  man,  as  he  received  more  and 
^more  light;,  from  the  illumination  of 
^'^Gods  fpirit^  even  till  they  goe  mad, 
*'*^  quoth  the  i(j>g,  with  their  owne  light : 
'*'  but  I  will  none  of  that ;  I  will  have  one 
'^^dodlrine,  and  one  diiciplinc,  one  Re- 
^'  ligion  in  fubftance  ,  and  in  ceremo- 
"ny:  and  therforel  charge  you  never  to 
^^  fpeake  more  to  that  point_,(howfaryou 
^'  are  bound  to  obey?)  when  the  Church 
"  hath  ordained  it .  And  fo  asked  them  a - 
*'^gaine,ifthey  had  any  thing  elle to  lay. 

D.%r)niolds  objected  the  example  c-f 
the  Bra(en    Serpent,    demolifhed   and 
rtampt  to  powder  by  B^echyas,  becaufe 
the  people abuled  it  to  Idolatry,  wiiliing 
that  in  like  fort,  the  Croffe  (liould  bee 
abandoned  ,   becaule  ,  in  the  time  of 
Popeiy,  it  had  beene   fuperftitiouHy  a. 
biifed .    Whereunto  the  Kings  MaieFiy 
anfwercd  divers  wayes .    Firft,    quoth 
he  ,  though  I  bee  fufficiently  perfwa- 
ded  of  the  CrolTe  in  Baptilmc,andthe 
L  com- 

74-  The  ji^irme  of  the  Conference 

^^  commendable  ufe  thereof  in  the  Church 
^*^lbloncy.  yet;,  if  there  were  nothing eKe 
^'  to  move  mee,  this  very  argument  were 
^^  an  inducement  to  me ;,  for  the  retaining 
^^  of  it;,  as  it  is  now  by  order  eftabhlhed  : 
^*  For  inafmuch,as  it  was  abufcd;.  So  you 
^^  rAy^tofuperftition^intime  of  Popery;,  it 
^^  doth  plainly  imply ;,that  it  was  wel  ufed 
^^  before  Popery,l  will  tell  you,  I  have  li- 
^Wed  among  this  fort  of  men;,  (  fpeaking 
"^^  to  the  Lords  and  Bifiiops,)  ever  fince 
^'  I  was  tenne  yeares  old,  but  I  may  fay  of 
*'''my  felfe  ,   as  Chrift  did  of  himfelfc;, 
"'^Though  I  lived  amongft  them;,  yet  fince 
^^  1  had  ability  to  judge  ,  I  was  never  of 
^^  them  ,•  neyther  did  any  thing  make  mee 
'''^more  to  condemne  ,  and  deteft  their 
^^  courfeS;,then  that  they  did  fo  perempto- 
'^  rily  difallow  of  all  things,   which  at  all 
^'  had  beene  u(ed  in  Popery.  For  my  part, 
"  1  knt>w  not  how  to  anfwer  the  obje(5ti- 
^^  on  of  the  Papifts ,  when  they  charge  us 
^*^  with  Novelties :  but  truly  to  tell  them^ 
^^  that  their  abuies  are  New^but  the  things 







before  tJ?e  K^ngs  Majesty,      yy 

which  they  abulcd  wee  rctaine  in  their 
Primitive  u(e,and  forfake  onely  the  No- 
^^  veil  corruption.  By  this  argument  wee 
might  renounce  the  Trinity ^and  all  that 
is  holy^becauie  it  was  abuied  in  Popery: 
(and  (peaking  to  Do6lor  ^ynoUs  mer- 
rily) they  ufed  to  w^earehofe  and  fliooes 
^  in  Popeiy^  therefore  you  fliall  now  goe 
^'  bare-foot. 

^^  Secondly  ,  quoth  his  Majejly ,  what 
^^  refemblance  is  there  betweene  the  Bra- 
^*'ien  Serpent  ;,  a  materiallvifible  thing, 
^^  and  the  figne  of  the  Crofle  made  in  the 
^^  Aire  ? 

^^     Thirdly,  I  am  given  to  underfland  by     ^ 
'"''theBifhops^andlfindeittrue,  that  the     ^ 
^'  Papifts  themfelves  did  never  afcribe  any 
"  power  or  fpirituall  graceto  the  Signe  of 
"the Crofle  in  Baptilme. 
^^     Fouithly ,  you  fte ,  that  the  materiall     ^ 
"  CrofleSjWhich  in  time  of  Popery  were      *" 
^^  made  ^  for  Men  to  fall  downe  before 
*^^  them,  as  they  paffed  by  the  to  worfliip 
"  them  (  as  the  Idolatrous  lewes  did  the 

L 1  Brafen 

7^  Thefmyime  of  the  Conference 

^  Brafen  Serpent )  aredemolifliedpasycm 
^^  defire. 

The  next  thing  which  was  objected, 

was,the  w^earingoPthe  Surplis ;,  a  kiwde 

ofgarmentjWhichthePricfts  of //w  uftd 

^'^  to  weaie.Surelyplakh  his  Majejly^  until! 

^''  oflate,!  did  not thinke  that  it  hadbeene 

^^  borrowed  from  the  Heathen^  becaufe  it 

^'  is  commonly  tearmed,a  Ragge  of  Pope- 

"^  ry^inlcorne  ;  but  were  it  fo,  yetneyther 

^^  did  we  border  upon  HeathenifliNaci- 

^^  ons,  neither  are  any  of  them  converlant 

^^  with  us ,  or  coramorant  amongfl:  us, 

^Svho  thereby  might  takejuft  occafion 

*^''to  bee  ftrengthned  ,  or  confirmed  in 

^^Paganifme/orthen  there  were  juftcaufe 

^''  to  fupprefle  the  wearing  of  if.but  feeing 

'^  it  appeared  out  of  antiquity,  that  in  the 

'^^  celebration  of  divine  Service,  a  different 

^^  habit  appertained  to  the  Miniftery .  and 

^^principally,  ofwhiteLinnen,  he  faw 

"  no  realon,  but  that  in  this  Church,  as  it 

^^  had  beene,  for  comeHnefle^and  for  or- 

*^der(ake,    it  might  bee  ftill  continued. 


before  the  I\wgs  Ad^Jefty.    77 

^*^This  being  his  conftant  and  refolute 

^^opinionp  chat  no  Church  ought  further 
*^^co  Icparate  it  felfe  from  the  Church  o^ 
'^  (?^owe^eyther  in  Doctrine  or  Ceremony^ 
^*^than  fliee  had  departed  from  her  felfe, 
*"'  when  file  was  in  her  flourifliins;  ^  bell 
"eftate^  and  from  Chrifl:  her  Lord  and 
"  Head. And  heere  ac]raine  he  asked,  what 
^^  more  they  had  to  lay. 
"     D.  Reynolds  tooke  exceptions  riC  chofe 
^^  words  in  the  Common  Prayer  Book, of 
'^  Matrimony,  With  my  body  I  thee  wor- 
^^fhip.  His  Majefiy  looking  upon  the 
''  place;  I  was  made  beleevC;,  ( iaith  he ) 
^^  that  the  Phrale  did  import  no  lefTe  then 
^^  Divine  worfliip  and  adoration  :  but  by 
^^  the  examination  I  finde^^that  it  is  an  ufir- 
^^  all  Englifh  tearme ,  as  a  Gentleman  of 
'^worfliipj  See.    and  the  lenft  agreeable 
'^  unto  Scriptures,  Giving  honour  to  the 
'^  wife,  &c.  But  turning  to  Doctor  ^y?i. 
^^  ( with  finiling faith  his  MajeBy^)  Many 
^*'a man  Ipcakes  oi^h'in Hood^who  never 
*^fhot  in  his  Bow  :  if  you  had  a  good 

L  3  wife 

78  The  ftmme  of  the  Conference 

'^  wife  your  felfe ,  you  would  thinkeall 
*^'  the  honour  and  w^orfliip  you  could  doc 
^^  to  her,  were  well  beftowcd. 
^^  The  Dcane  of  Saruni  mentioned  the 
^'  Ring  in  marriage  ^  which  Doctor  5^/z,. 
^'  approved  y  and  the  Kjng  confefled  that 
^^  he  was  Married  withall-and  added^that 
^^  hee  thought  they  would  prove  to  bee 
^^  icarce  well  Married^  who  are  not  Mar- 
''^riedwith  a  Ring. 

^^     He  Ukewift  fpakc  of  the  Churching 

^^  ofwoman;,by  the  name  of  Purification, 

^^  which  being  read  out  of  the  booke,  his 

^^  MajeTty  very  well  allowed  it ;,  and  plea- 

fantly  (aid  _,  that  women  were  loth 

enough    of  themlelves  to   come  to 

''^  ^^  Churchy  and  therefore  hee  would  have 

^^thiS;,orany  other  occafion  to  draw  them 

*'^  thither. 

And  this  was  th^  lubftanee  and  (ummt 
of  that  third  generall  point.  At  which 
paw  ftpit  growing  toward  night,  his  Ma^ 
jefly  asked  againe  ,  if  they  had  any  more 
to  fay :  If  they  had  ^   becaufe  it  was  late, 


before  the  K^gs  Aiajeflj.    yg 

theylhouW  have  another  day  ;  but  M. 
Doctor  ^ynoUs  told  him  ^  that  they 
had  but  one  point  more^  which  was  the 
laft  generall  head  •  butitpleaied  hisMi= 
jefty  ^  firfl  toaske  whatthey  could  fiy  to 
the  Cornerd  Cap  ?They  all  approved  ic: 
WelUhen,faidhisAf^y^f();;,  turning  him- 
^'  felfe  to  the  BifliopS;,you  may  now  lafely 
*'*'  weare  your  Caps :  but  I  (hall  tell  you,if 
*'  you  flbould  walke  in  one  ftreete  in  Scot- 
" /rf;/<:/^with  fuch  a  Cap  on  your  head,  if  I 
^  were  not  with  you ;,  you  fliould  be  fto- 
^''ned  to  death  with  you  Cap. 

In  the  fourth  generall  head  touching 
Dilciphne  J  Doctor  (?(ry«.  firfl:  tooke  ex- 
ception to  the  committing  of  Ecclefia- 
fticall  cenfures  unto  Lay-Chancellors  5 
his  rea(bn  was ,  that  in  the  Statute  made 
in  I\ipg  Henry  his  time,  for  their  autho- 
"  rity  that  was  abrogated  in  Queene  Ma- 
rks time  y  and  not  revived  in  the  late 
Qneene3  daies :  and  abridged  by  Bifhops 
themfclves  1571.  ordring  that  the  faid 
Lay-  Chancellors  fhould  not  excommu- 



So  ^hefumme  of  the  Conference 

nicace  in  matters  of  Correclion,  and  j(n. 
1584.  and  1589.  not  in  matters  of  fn- 
ftance  ,  but  to  bee  done  onely  by  them^ 
who  had  power  of  the  KeiesiHii  M<^yV- 
fiy  anlwered ;  He  had  already  conferred 
with  his  Bifihops,  about  that  point,,  and 
*^^  that  fuch  order  (liould  be  taken  therein^ 
^^  as  was  convenient^  willing  him  in  the 
^',meanetime,  to  goe  to  (bme  other  mat- 
ter^jif he  had  any.  Thenheedefireth;,that 
according  to  certaine  provincial!  confti- 
tutions  ^  they  of  the  Clergy  might  have 
meetings  once  everv  three  weekes  ^  Firft^ 
in  Rurall  Deanries ,  and  therein  to  have 
I  Cor.  Prophecying^  according  as  the  reverend 
^4-  Father  Archbifliop  Grindall ,  and  other 
Bifliopsdefiredof  her  late  Majesiy  :  Se- 
condly^ that  luch  things  as  could  not  bee 
refolved  upon  there  ,  might  bee  referred 
to  the  Archdeacons  Vifitarion  *  and  /b 
Thirdly  ;,  from  thence  to  the  Epilcopall 
Synode,  where  the  Bifhop  with  his  Pref- 
bytery,  fhould  derermine  all  fuchpointj^ 
^  as  before  could  not  be  decided. 


before  the  K^ngs  MajeUy.      8i 

Ac  which   fpeech^  his  MajeFiy  waS 
(ome-whac    ftirredj  yet,   which  is  ad- 
mirable in  him,    without    paffion,    or 
fiiew  thereof ;   thinking  that  they  ay- 
mcdat  a  Scottifh   Presbytery  ,  w^hich, 
fayth  he,  as  well  agrceth  with    a  Monar- 
chy, as  God  and  the  Devill.  Then  Lickey 
'^  and  TofUy  and  Ti^ill,  and  Dick  fliall  meet, 
''  and  at  their  pleadires  cenfiire  mc  6>c  my 
'^'^  Councell ,    and  all    our  proceedings : 
^'  Then  Will  dial  ftand  up  and  fay,It  mufl 
'^'^bethusj  then  D/cAe  fh all  reply  and  lay, 
**^  Nay  Mary,but  we  wil  have  it  thus.And 
<■*'  therfore,  here  I  muft  once  reiterate  my 
'^  former  ipeech  ,  Le  ^y  s '  avifcra :  Stay 
^^  I  pray  you,  for  one  leaven  years,  before 
^^  you  demand  that  of  me:  and  if  then 
^"^you  finde  mce  pur(ey  and  fat,    and 
f^  my  winde  pipes  ftuffed,   I  will  per- 
c^'haps  hearken  to  you  :  for  let  that  Go- 
<^Wernmenc   be  once  up,    I  am  fure  I 
'-^  flhall  be  kept  in  breath ,  then  fhall  w^ee 
<*^  all  of  us  have  worke  enough ,  both  our 
**"  hands  full  .    But     Doctor  •  (I{ey?idds 

M  till 

Si  Tlkfumme  oftBe  Conference 

'•^  till  you  finde  that  I  grow  lazi  e  ^  let  that 
'^  alone. 

And  heere,  becaule  that  O.  ^eyn,  had 

twiie  before  obtruded  the  KingsjSupre- 

made  ,•  fir  ft  ,  in  the  Article  concerning 

the  Pope  ;  Secondly  ,  in  the  point  of 

Subfcription  ,  his  Majejly  at  tho(e  times 

^^  faid  nothing :  but  now  growing  to  an 

^'  endjhe  (aid^  I  fliall  fpeake  of  one  matter 

'^^  more;  yet  fbmewhat  out  of  order  :but  it 

^^  skilleth  not.  D. 5^72  .quoth  the  King,you 

'"'^  have  often  fpoken  for  my  Supremacy  j 

^^  6c  it  is  welljbut  know  you  any  heere;,or 

^'  any  el(e -where,  who  like  of  the  prefent 

^'^  Government  Ecclefiafticall ,  that  finde 

^^  fault  or  diflike  my  Supremacy?  D.^y?t, 

"faidjNo.  Why  then,  C^idhis  Maje^y^  I 

^'^  will  tell  you  a  Tale.  After  that  the  Reli- 

'^  gion  reftored  by  King  Edward  the  Sixth, 

^^  was  (bone  overthrowne^by  the  fiiccefli-. 

^^  on  of  Queene  Mary  heere  in  England,'wc 

"  in  Scotland  felt  the  tScd:  of  it.  Whereup- 

^^  on  M.Knox  writes  to  the  Queene  Rc- 

"  gent/of^whom  without  flattery,  I  may 


before  the  K^ngs  Majesty.      85 

iay .  that  flie  was  a  vertuous  and  mode- 
rateLadjJ^tellingher  thacfheew 

^'  premeRead  oFtlie  Churchjand  charged 
^^  her,as  file  would  afll\ver  it  before  Gods 
^^  tribunaI,to  take  care"6FChnfl:  his  Evan- 
**'gill^and  ofluppresfing  thePopiFFPre- 
^'  lates,\vho  wirhftoodthe  (ame.But  how 
^^  longjtrow  yee^did  this  continue  r  Even 
^^  fo  Iong,till  by  her  authority _,  the  Popifh 
^^  Bifliops  were  reprefled^he  him(elfe,and 
'^  his  Adherents  werebrous;ht  inland  well 
^^  letled,  and  by  thele  meanes  made  ftrong 
*^'  enoui;h,to  undertake  the  matiiers  of  Re- 
^^  rormatio  themftlves.  Then  ioe^they  be . 
^^  gan  tnmakermallrKpf^nnrnFlnprSnp^^- 
macy,  nor  would  longer  reft  on  her  au- 
thority ,  but  tooke  the  cauie  into  their 
owne  hand,and  according  to  that  more 
^^  light^whcrwiththey  were  illuminated, 
^^  made  a  further  Reformatio  of  Religion. 
"How  they  u(ed  that  poore  Lady  my  mo- 
"  ther,is  not  unknowne,  and  with  griefc 
*^^  I  may  remember  it.  who ,  bccaufe  fhee 
^"^hadnocbeene  otherwift  inftruded,did 

M  2  defire. 

§4-  Thefumme  of  the  Conference 

^^  dcfire^onV^a private  Chappe]) ^wherein 
^IxQjcrveTjod  after  her  maner^with  Tom e 
** lew lelected  perlons,buc  her  (upremacy 
^^  was  not  lurhcientto^obtaine  it  at  their 
^'  hands  *-  And  how  they  dealt  with  me  in 
^^^my  minority  ^ycu  all  know  itwas  not 
'"don  leer  ecly,and  though  1  would,!  can* 
not  concealeit.   I  will  apply  it  thus. 
"And  then  putting  his  hand  to  his  Hat;, 
^'  his  Maejsiy  layd,myLords^the  Bifliops, 
^'Imaythank.eyoU;,that  thele  men   doe 
^'^  thus  plead  for  my  Supremacy.    They 
"  thinke  they  canot  maketheir  party  good 
*^'^againft  you  p  but  by  appeahng  unto  it, 
*  ■  as  ifyou_,  or  fome  that  adhere  unto  you, 
"  were  not  wel  afifeded  towards  it.  But  if 
ounce  you  were  out^and  they  in  place,  I 
know  what  would  become  of  my  Su- 
premacy.  No  Biniop;,no  King^as  before 
^^l  iayd.  Neither  do  I  thus  fpeake  at  ran^- 
^^  dome, without  ground/or  I  have  obfer- 
"  ved  fince  my  comming  into  England^ 
"  that  fbme  Preachers  before  me  ,  can  be 
^^c.pntenc  to  pray  for  lames  King-  of  £«g;:= 

'    land, 


before  the  K^gs  Ad^jefly.    8y 

^*  lafidy  Scotland  ^France  yc:jrlrela7id  ^defender: 
5'  of  the  FaitB^uc  as  for  fupreame  Gover- 
^'^  aor^  iiTallTatifts^and  over  al  perfons  (as 
'"^  well  Ecclefiafticall  asGivill  )•  they  palfc 
^*  that  over  with  *{ilence/.&\vhat  cut  they 
^'^  have  beene  of,l  after  learned.  After  this 
"askingthem,   if  they  had  any    more  to 
*'^objed-6c  D.^o'-^^^'^'^vring  no  ,his  Majc- 
y?)' appoynted  the  next   wednefday  for 
both  parties  to  meete  before  him,  and  ri- 
fing  from  his  Chaire;,  as  he  was  going  to 
his  inner  Chamber  _,  If  this  be  all ,  c]Lioth 
^'^he;,  that  they  have  to  fay^  1  fliall  make 
^^  them  conforme  themfelves^or  I  wil  har- 
^^  ry  them  out  of  this  lad, or  el(e  do  worle. 
And  this  was  the  fumme  of  the  (econd 
dayes  Conference,  which  raifed  inch  an 
admiration  in  the  Lords^ia  relped:  of  the 
King  his  fingular  readynefle,  and  exact 
knowledge,that  one  of  them  faid,he  was 
fully  pevfwaded,hisA/.ijV/fy  fpake  by  the 
inftindi  of  the  fpirit  of  God.    My  Lord 
Cicill  acknowledged,   that  very    much 
wee  are  bound  to  God,  who  had  given 

M  3  us 

$6  The  fumrne  of  the  Conference 

Aisa  King  of  an  underftandingheart.My 
Lord  Chancellor  paffing  but  of  the  pri- 
vy Chanmber  ,  (aid  unfo*  tBe  Deane  of 
CheHer ,  (landing  bythedoore  ;  I  have 
often  heard  and  read  5  that  (2^x  eTt  mixta 
perfor?a  cum  Sacerdotej  but  I  never  faw  the 
truth  thereof  till  this  day. 

Surely ,  wholbever  heard  his  MajeUy, 
might  juftly  thinke ;,  that  title  did  more 
properly  fit  him;,  which  Eunapim  gave  to 
that  famous  Rhetorician,  in  iaying, 
that  he  was ,  '^'/'^'•W"  r,t  if^,r^v)c>c» 
timfiimtKf  f*u'i7*r,A,  liviuff  Li- 
brary ,and  a  Walking 

Finis  fecund^  diet. 







?fPon  Wcdnelclay  ,  lanu^ 
arte  i8.  all  the  Bidiops 
aforenamed  ^.  attended 
at  the  Court  ,  and  the 
Deanes  :  who  were  all 
called  into  the  Privic  Chamber  ,  and 
who  To  elfe  my  Lord  Arch-Bifliop 
appointed  ,  (  for  fuch  was  his  Maje^ 
Hies  pleafure  )  whereupon  the  Knights 
and  Doaors  of  the  Arches  ,  Vi^,  Sir 
Daniel  T^unne  ,  Sir  TI?omas  Crumpton , 
Sir  <Richard  Swde  ,  Sir  lohn  Sennet ,  and 
^  D,I>rury 

8S  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

Do6tor  Drwrjeiuredin.  As  (bone  as  the 
Z^iw^  was  fet ;,  the  Lord  Archbifhop  pre- 
iented  unto  hinci  a  note  of  thofe  poynts, 
which  hisM^jeUy  had  referred  to  their 
coafideration  ^upon  the  firll  day,  and  the 
alteration ,  or  rather  explanation  of  them 
in  our  Liturgie. 

1  Abfblution    or    Remiffion    of 
finnes,    in  the  Rubrike  of  Abfb- 

2  In  private  Baptifme,  thelawfull 
Minifter  prelent, 

J  Examination;, w^ith  Confirmation 
of  Children. 

4  lefus  laid  to  them ;  twift  to  be  put 
into  the  Dominicall  Gofpels,  in 
fieadof  i<?/wf  (aydto  his  Difciples. 
"  His  Majejly  here  taking  the  Common 
'*'  prayer  booke,  and  turning  to  private 
^'  Baptifmc^willed^that  where  the  words 
^^  were  (in  the  Rubrike,  the  iecond  Para- 
^^  graph)They  baptize  notchildren^Now 
"  it  fhould  be  thus  read-  They  cauftnot 
children  to  be  baptized,-  and  againe,  in 


before  the  Kj^ngs  Majesty.  8p 

^'  the  lame  paragraph^  for  thofe  words  - 
^'  Then  they  Minifter  it,  it  Hiould  be^The 
^^  Curate,or  lawful  Minifter  prcftnt^fliall 
^'  doe  it  on  this  fafliion.  Concluding  very 
^'^ gravely, that  in  this  Conference;,  heeai- 
^^  med  at  three  things  principally -firft^The 
^^  letting  downe  of  words  fit  and  convc- 
*'*^nient-Secondly^Contriving  how  things 
^'^might  be  beft  done,withouc  appearance 
*^*^  of  alteration  ;  Thirdly,  Pra(5ti(ed^  that 
^  each  man  may  doe  his  duty  in  his  place. 
^'^     After  this,  his  Majefly  fell  into  dif 
^^  courfe    about   the    high    Qommlsjion , 
^^  wherin  he  faid^that  he  underftood,how 
^^  the  parties  named  thercin,weretoo  ma- 
"  ny  and  too  meane-that  fhe  matters  they 
"  dealt  in  were  bafe,  and  fuch  as  Ordina- 
**^  ries  at  home  in  their  Courts  might  cen- 
^'  iure^that  the  branches  granted  out  to  the 
Bifliops  in  their  feverall  Diocefles ,  were 
too  frequent  and  large.   To  which,  my 
Lords  Grace  anfwered  fcvcrally.  Firft, 
for  the   number  ,  it  was   requifite  it 
(hould  bee  great ,  for  otherwife  ,  hee 

N  muft 

po  Tloefunme  of  the  Conference 

muft  bee  forced  as  oft-times  now  it  fell 
out,  to  fit  alone,  becaufe,  that  albeit  all 
tlie  Lords  of  the  Privy  Countell  were  in^, 
all  theBifliops,  nnany  of  the  judges  at 
Law  ,  and  fome  of  the  Cleai:ks  of  the 
Councell;,  yet  very  few,  or  none  of  them, 
fitting  with  him  at  ordinary  times,  (bme 
of  meaner  place,  as  Deanes,  and  Dodors 
of  Divinity^  and  Law,  muft  needes  bee 
put  in  .;  whole  attendance ,  his  Grace 
might  with  more  authority  command 
and  expert.  Secondly  ,  /or  the  matters 
handled  therein,  he  faid,  that  hee  often- 
times had  complained  thereof ,  but  faw 
that  it  could  not  bee  remedied  5  becaule, 
that  the  fault  may  bee  of  that  nature  ,  as 
that  the  ordinary  jurifdidlion  might  cen- 
lure  it  :  but  eftft)ones  it  falls  out ,  that 
the  party  deUnquent  is  too  great,  and  lb 
the.  Ordinary  dare  not  proceed  ^againft 
him  ;  orlbmightyinhisftate,orlbwil- 
fullinhiscontumacie,  that  hee  will  not 
obey  the  Summons  or  cenlure  ;  and  lb 
the  .Ordinary  is  forced  to  crave  helpe  at 

before  the  Icings  Majesty,   pi 

the    High    Qommisjion,     To   the  thirds 
his  Grace  laid,  that  ic  concerned  not  him 
to  make  anfwer  thereunto  ;,   for  iuch 
Commisfions     have     beene    granted    a- 
gainft  his  will  oftentimes ,  and  without 
his  knowledge  for  the  moft  part.    My 
Lord  Chancellor  therefore  offered  it  to 
his  Majeflies  wiftdome  to  confider  ,  if 
Iuch  Commisfions  (hould  not  bee  gran- 
tedtoanyBifhop  ,  but  iuch  as  have  the 
^'  largcft  Diocefles, which  his  M^/>/7j  well 
^^  approved ;  and  added  withall^that  thole 
^'Bifliops  who  have  in  their  DioceflTes^ 
'*'thc  moft  troubleibme  &  refradtary  per- 
'*^(bns,either  Papifts,  or  Puritans, :  but  of 
^'^this  ,  asalfoofthe  other  things  found 
^'  fault  with  hercin^he  willed  thofe  to  con- 
^''fult;,  to  whom  fhould  be  appointed  the 
review  of  the  Comm'tsfion,      And  here 
that  point  had  ended;,  but  that  one  of  the 
Lords ,  ( I  thinke  verily  rather  upon  miC- 
information;,  then  fet  purpoft ,  )  pleaied 
to  (av  ,  that  the  proceeding  thereby,  was 
like  unto  thQSpaniJh  Inquifition,  where- 

N   2  in 

pi  The  f mime  of  the  Conference 

ia  men  were  urged  to  (ublcribe  more 
then  Law  required,  that  by  the  Oach£x 
cfftcio  y  they  were  inforccd  to  accule 
themftlves ;  that  they  were  examined  up- 
on xO;,or  24. Articles,  upon  the  fiidden, 
without  deUberation  ,  and  for  the  raoft 
partagainft  themlelves :  for  ch^  evidence 
thereof,a  letter  was  Qicwed  of  an  ancient 
Honourable  Councellor^  written  to  the 
Lord  Arch-Biflhop,  Jiim,  1584.  of  two 
Minifters  ofCamhridgeJliyey  then  or  there 
abouts ,  examined  upon  many  Articles, 
and  in  the  end  deprived.  The  Lord 
Arch-Bifhopanlwered^firft,  to  themat- 
cer^that  in  the  manner  of  proceeding,  and 
examining,  his  Lordftiip  was  deceived : 
for  ifaiiy  Article  did  touch  the  party  any 
way,  eytherforHfe,  liberty,  orfcandall, 
he  might  refu(e  to  an(wer,ney ther  was  he 
urged  thereunto ;  Secondly,  tothe  Letter^ 
being  in  a  cauft  twenty  yceres  fince  deter- 
mined, hee  could  notanlwertheparticu- 
lars,but  if  his  anfwer  to  that  Letter  were 
found  out,hee  doubted  not ,  but  as  it  did 


before  the  K^gs  Adajejly.    pj 

iadsfie  that  honourable  Councellor  when 
he  hved  ,  fo  it  would  alio  fufficiently 
cleare  this  complaint  before  his  Majesty. 

My  Lord  of  London  ,  for  the  matter  of 
Subicription^  fhewedhisHiig/wejf/t'the  3. 
'  Articles^,  which  the  Church-men  of  Eng:: 
land  are  to  approve  by  Sublcribingj name- 
ly, the  I\jngs  Supremacy .  the  Articles  of 
Religion  ,  and  the  Booke  of  Common 
Prayer.  All  which  it  pleaied  his  Majesty 
himfelfe,  to  read ,  ( and  after  a  litle  glance 
given  ^  that  the  mention  of  the  Oath  Ex 
offtdOyCSLtnc  in  before  his  due  time )  he  di= 
lated,  firft,  howncceflary  Subfcription 
was  ,  in  every  well  governed  Church ; 
that  it  was  to  be  urged,  for  the  keeping  of 
peace :  for  as  Laws  to  prevent  killing;,did 
provide  there  fhould  bee  no  quarrelling  j 
fo  to  prevent  greater   tumults   in  the 
Church^fubfcriptio  was  requifite- Second- 
ly, becaufe  the  Bifhop  is  to  an(\ver  fore- 
very  Minifter,  whom  hee  admictcth  into 
his  Dioceffe,  it  were  fitteft  for  him ;,   to 
know  the  afFedion  of  the   party  be- 

N   3  fore 




94-  ^hefummeofthe  Conference 

fore  his  admittance  ,  the  beft  way  to 
know  him,  and  to  prevent  future  facti- 
ons, was  to  urge  his  iiibfcription  at  his 
firft  entrance  :  for,  Turp'tm eijchur ^  cjuam 
non  admit titur  hofpes.  Thirdly^as  Iiibfcrip- 
tion was  a  good  meanes  to  difcerne  the 
affedion  of  perfbns  ,  whether  quiet  or 
^'  turbulent  ,•  withall,it  was  the  principall 
way  to  avoyd  confufion  :  concluding^ 
that  if  any ,  after  things  were  well  orde- 
red would  not  be  quiet ,  and  fliew  his 
^^  obedience,the  Church  were  better  with- 
^'^  out  hina,  he  were  worthy  to  be  hanged. 
'^^  T)'£Hat  utpereat  nnm^  quam  unitds. 

Touching  the  Oath ,  £x  o^ao ,  the 
Lord  Chancellor,  and  after  him  the  Lord 
Treafurer ,  fpake  both  for  the  neceffity  & 
u(e  thereof  in  diverfe  Courts  ,  and  cafes. 
"  But  his  Excellent  MajeUy  preventing 
^^  that  old  allegation.  Nemo  cogitur^detege^ 
*^  refuam  turpkudineniy  laid,  that  the  Civill- 
^^  proceedings  only  puniflied  faiSts,  but  in 
^^  Courts  Ecclefiafticall ,  it  was  requifitey 
^^  that  Fame  and  Scandales  fliould  be  loo-  . 



before  the  Kings  Majejly.    py 

ked  unto.  That  here  was  neceflary,  the 
Oath  Compurgatorie ,  and  the  Oach  Ex 
officio  too  ;  and  yet  great  moderation 
"  flioLild  be  uled ,  firft.  In gmVwr'ibmcrU 
"  minibus :  and  Secondly,in  fiich^vvhereof 
^'  there  is  a  pubhque  fame  :  Thirdly^in  di- 
^\  ftinguifliing  of  pubh  que  Fame  ^  either 
^^  caufed  by  theinordinate  demeanor  of  the 
*^'  ofFendor^jOr  raifed  by  the  undifcreet  pro- 
^^  ceeding  in  triall  of  the  fad:  as  namely  in 
'^  Scotland y\N\\^tt  the  lying  with  a  wrench 
^^  (though  done  privately  j  and  knovvpe^ 
^'^or  fcarce  fufpe6ted  by  two  or  three  per- 
^^  ions  before )  was  made  openly  know^nc 
^^  to  the  Kingjto  theQuecne,to  the  Prince, 
'^  to  many  hundreds  in  the  Courtpby  brin- 
'^  ging  the  parties  to  theftoole  ofRepen- 
^^  tance,  and  yet  perhaps  be  but  a  lulpition 
'^onely.   And  here  his  M^/e^folbundly 
^'^  defcribed  the  Oath  Hxq^/ao  :    Firft^  for 
'''the  ground  thereof:  Secondly^jThe  wif- 
'^  dome  of  the  Law  therein.  Thirdly  ^Thc 
*^^  manner  of  proceeding  cherebv;,  and  the 
^^  ncceflary  and  profitable  efFe6t  thereof, 


9^  The  frmme  of  the  Concert /ice 

^^  in  fuch  a  compendious^but  abfolute  or- 
"  dcr,  that  all  the  Lords  and  the  reft  of  the 
^^preftnt  Auditors ,  flood  amazed  at  it: 
The  Arch-Bifhop  of  Canterbury  Qiid^  that 
undoubtedly  his  Majejly  (pake  by  the 
fpeciall  aififtance  of  Gods  Spirit ,  The 
Bifhop  of  London  upon  his  knee ,  prote- 
fted  ,  chat  his  heart  melted  within  him, 
(  as  fo  hee  doubted  not ,  did  the  hearts 
ofthe  whole  Company  )  with  joy,  and 
made  hafte  to  acknowledge  unto  Al- 
mighty God  ,  the  fingular  mercie  wee 
have  received  at  his  hands ,  in  giving  us 
fuch  a  Kjfig^  as  fince  Chrift  his  time ,  the 
like  he  thought  had  not  beene  ^  where- 
unto  the  Lords  with  one  voycc,  did  yeeld 
a  very  afFe(5tionate  acclamation.  The 
Civilians  preftnt,  confeffed  ,  that  they 
could  not  in  many  houres  warnings 
have  Co  judicially^plainly,  and  accurately, 
and  in  fuch  a  briefe  delcribed  it.  ' 
"  After  this  ,  his  Majejly  committed 
^^  Ibme  weighty  matters  to  bee  confiilted 
^^  of,by  the  Lords  and  Bifliops  ^  firft ,  for 


before  the  ^ngs  Majesty.^  9  7 

^^  Excomunication^  in  caufes  of  Icfle  mo- 
*^^ment;  the  name  or  cenfiirc  to  be  altered. 
^'^  Secondly,  for  the  High  Commiflion, 
^^thecjuality  of  the  perlbns  to  be  named, 
^^  and  the  nature  of  the  caufes  to  be  hand- 
^Mcdtherin.  Thirdly,  for  reculant  Com- 
•^  municants:  for  there  are  three  Ibrts^laith 
*^'  his  Majefty^   of  the  Papifts:  Some;,  firfl-, 
"  which  come  to  Sermons^  but  not  to  (er- 
^'  vice  and  prayer,-  lecondly,  Ibme  which 
^^come  to  both   them,   but  not  to  the 
^^  Communion-  thirdly,a  number  which 
*^'^abftainefrom  all.  That  inquiry  might 
'^  be  made  of  all  thole^  who  were  of  the 
^^  firft,  (econd,  or  third  ranke,  concluding 
^^  therein,  That  the  weake  were  to  be  in- 
*^  formed,  the  wilfuU  to  be  puniflied. 

Here  my  Lord  Chancellor  mentioned 
the  writ,  T>e  Excommunkcito  capiendo^ 
which  his  Hon.  faid  did  moft  affright 
the  Papifts,  ofall  other  punifhments,  be- 
caulcby  reafbn  of  that  they  were  many 
waycs  difabled  in  law:therforc  he  would 
take  order^  if  his  MajeHy  Co  plea(cd,to 
O  fend 

pS  Tloefunme  of  the  Conference 

fend  that  writ  out  againft  them  freely, 
without  charge  ,  and  if  they  were 
not  executedjhis  Lordfhip  would  lay  the 
Vnder-Iheriffes  in  Priibn,  and  to  this  the 
King  a  (Tented. 

"  The  fourth  thing  to  be  confalted  of, 
^^  was  for  the  (ending  and  appointing  of 
"  Preachers  into  Ireland^  whereof,  (aith 
"  \i\sMajefly)\2iVCi  buthalfe  a/^w^,being 
^'  Lord  over  their  bodies,  but  their  (oules 
^'^  feduced  by  Popery ,  hee  rnuch  pittied, 
^^  affirming,  that  where  there  is  not  true 
^^  Religion ,  there  can  bee  no  continued 
*^  obedience  •  nor  FovIrela?id  only,  but  for 
^^  (bmepartofW^j/^x ,  andtheNortherne 
^^  borders,(b  once  called,  though  now  no^ 
^^  borders  :the  men  to  be  fent,nottobefa- 
*^  dtious^  or  (eandalous,for  weeds  will  be 
''' weeds,  whcrelbever  they  be,  and  are 
"  good  for  nothing ,  but  to  be  picked  over 
^^  the  wall,  therefore  they  fhould  (ingle 
'*  of fincerity,of knowledge,  of 
^^  courage. 

^^    Thelaftwas/orprovifion  of  fuffici- 


before  thel^np  MajeHy.  pp 

^^  ent  maintenaacc  for  the  Clergie;  and 
^^  wichall/or  the  planting  of  a  learned  and 
''''  painefull  Miniller  in  every  Parifli  ^  as 
^'^time  fliall  icrve. 

'^  To  every  of  thofe,  his  Maje/ly  willed 
^^thac  ftverall  Commifljoners  of  his 
^'  Coiincell  and  Bi/Lops  fliould  be  ap- 
^^  pointed  by  the  Lord,  upon  the  diffol- 
^'  ving  the  alTembly  preient. 

And  thus  having  conferred  of  thefc 
points  with  the  Bifliops  ,   and  referred 
other  fbmeof  them  ,    ay  you  heard,  to 
fpcciall  Committies,  his  Majefiy  willed, 
that  D.  ^jin.  and  his  aflbciates  ;,    fhoiild 
be  called  in  -  to  whom ,  he  preftntly  j(ig- 
nified,  what  was  done,  andcaufed  the 
alterations ,  or  explications ,  before  na- 
med, to  be  read  unto  them.  A  Hcledii^ 
puting  there  Was  ,  about  the  words  in 
Marriage,  With  my  body  I  thee  worfhip, 
and  arguing  no  other  thing  to  be  meant, 
by  the  word  worfliip,thcn  that ,   which 
S,Taul  willeth,  i  Cor.y*  4«  the  man  there- 
by acknowledgingjthat  hereby  hee  wor- 
O  1  fliippeth 

100  TJ9efmme  of  the  Conference 

fhippetii  his  wife^  inth;ie  he  appropria- 
teth  his  body  urito  her  alone  :  nor  any 
more,  then  that  which  S.  ^eier  coun- 
(elleth,  I  (Per. 3.7.  That  the  man  fhould 
give  honour  to  his  wife,  as  the  weaker 
vcflell  yet  for  their  fatisfadtion^  fhould  be 
put  in,  With  my  body  I  thee  worfhip^and 
honor,  if  ic  were  thought  ht-  andlo  his 
Majesty  {hwt  up  allvvithamofl  pithy  ex- 
'^^  hortationtoboth  fides  for  ^nity,  per- 
*'  fvvading  diligence  in  each  mans  place;, 
^^without  violence  on  the  one  party,  or 
*^  difobediece  on  the  other  &  willed  them 
^^  to  deale  with  their  frieds  abroad  to  that 
^^  purpofe  •  for  his  MajeHy  feared,  and  had 
*^fbme  experience,  that  many  of  them 
*^  were  ticliflh  and  humorous,nor  that  on- 
*^  ly,  but  laborers  to  pervert  others  to  their 
*^ fancies;  he  now  law,that  the  exceptions, 
^'againft  the  Comunion  Booke,  were 
^'^  matters  of  weakneffe;  therefore,  if  the 
^^  perfons  reluctant  be  difcreec,  they  Avill 
"  be  won  betimes,and  by  good  perfvvafi- 
^  ons^if  undilcieetpbetter  they  were  remo-' 


before  the  K^ngs  Majejly.  loi 

^^  ved:for  many,  by  their  Eidrious  behavi- 
^^  our  vveredrivento  bePapifts.Now  then 
"  of  their  fraits^he  (hall  judge  themj  Obe- 
^^  dienceand  Humility  being  marks  of  ho- 
'^  neft  and  good  men.Thofe  he  expcded  of 
''  them  and  by  their  example  and  perfvva- 
'^  fion  of  all  their  (ort  abroad/or^if  hereaf- 
"  ter,  thi  ngs  being  thus  well  ordred,  they 
'*"  fhould  be  unquiet,  neither  his  Majefy  ' 
*^'  nor  the  ftate  had  any  caufe  to  think  well 
^^  of  them.To  which^they  gave  al  their  un- 
animous aflentjtaking  exception  againft 
nothing  that    was  laid  or    done,  but 
promiftd  to   performe  all  duty  to  the 
BifliopSj  as  their  Reverend  Fathers,  and 
to  joyne  with  them   againft  the  com- 
mon advcrfarics,  and  for  the  quiet  of  the 

Only,  Maftcr  Qhattemn  of  Emanu^ 
el  CoUedge,  kneeling,  requefted  that 
che  wearing  of  thcSurplis,  and  the  ufe 
of  the  Crofle  in  Baptifine,  might  not 
be  urged  upon  (bmc  honcft,  godly,  and 
painfull  Minifters  in  fome  parts  of  Lan^ 

O3  cajhirc;, 

102  The  fumme  of  the  Conference 

capire ,  who  feared ,  that  if  they  (Iiould 
beforccd  unto  them ,  many  whom  they 
had  won  to  the  Go(pell,  vvould  (lidt 
backe ,  and  revolt  unto  Popery  againe, 
and  particularly ,  inftanced  the  Vicar  of 
^tejdale  (  he  could  not  have  light  upon 
aworie-,  )  for  not  many  yeeres  before, 
he  was  proved  before  my  Lord  Arch-Bi- 
fhop^as  his  Grace  there  teftified ,  and  my 
Lord  Chancellor ,  by  his  unieemely  and 
unreverent  u&ge  of  the  Eucharift  ,  dea- 
ling the  bread  out  of  a  Basket,  every  man 
putting  in  his  hand  ,  and  taking  out  a 
peecc  ,  to  have  made  many  loath  the  ho- 
ly Communion,  and  wholly  refule  to 
*^  come  to  Church  His  MajeUy  anfwered, 
^'  that  it  was  nothispurpofe^andhe  durft 
"  anixver  for  the  Bifliops  ,  that  it  was 
^''^  not  their  intent  ,  prefently^and  out  of 
^'  hand  to  inforcethoicthings^withoutfa- 
"  thcrly  admonitions,  conferences ,  and 
'^  pcrfwafions  premiftd ;  but  wifhed,that 
^^  k  flaould be  examined,  if  thofe  Men  by 
^^theirpaines  and  preaching  had  conver- 

before  the  K^/igs  Adcjje fly.  loj 

^^  ted  any  from  Popery,  and  were  withall 
^'  men  quiec  of  dilpoficion,  honeft  of  life, 
"  and  diligent  in  their  calling  5  if  (b,letters 
'^fliould  be  written  to  the  Bifliop  of  Che- 
^^  Her,  (  of  whom  his  M;j^f(^  gave  a  very 
^^  good  teftimony  )  to   that  purpole  :  if 
^^  not^but  that  they  were  of  a  turbulent 
'^  and  oppofite  fpirit,  both  they  and  other 
*'*'  of  that  unquiet  humor  flhould  preiently 
^'  be  enforced  to  a  conformity  :  and  fo  for 
'^  that  point,  it  was  concluded  ;,  that  my 
"  Lord  Arch-Bifhop  fliould  write  to  the 
^^  Bifliop  ofQyeJler  ,  his  Letters  for  that 


My  Lord  o( London  replieth,  that  if  this 
were  granted,  the  Copy  of  theft  Letters 
(  efpccially  ,  if  his  MajeUy  had  written, 
as  at  firft  it  was  purpofed  )  would  flie 
over  all  England  ,  and  then  other ,  for 
their  confines,  would  imake  the  lame  re- 
queft,  and  lb  no  fruit  fhould  follow  of 
this  Conference  ,  but  things  would  be 
worfe  then  they  were  before.  There- 
fore he  humbly  defired  his  Majejiy^  that 

ia4.  The  fi^mme  of  the  Conference 

a  time  fhould  be  limited^  within  which 
compafle,  they  fhould  conforme  them- 
"lelves.  To  which  his  M^ygy?^ readily 
^'  affented^  and  willed ,  that  the  Bifliop  of 
'^  the  DiocefTe^fhould  fet  them  downe  the 
^^  time,  and  in  the  meane  while  conferre 
"  with  them,and  if  they  would  not  yeeld, 
^'  whatfbever  they  were,  to  remove  them, 
^"^  after  their  time  expired. 

No  fboner  was  that  motion  ended, 
but  downe  fals  M.  IQietvHubsy  and  he  re- 
quefts  the  like  favour,  of  forbearance,  for 
fome  honeftMinifters  in  Sw^fc,  telling 
thei^m^  it  would  make  much  againft 
their  Credits  in  the  Countrey,  to  be  now 
forced  to  the  Surplis ,  and  the  Croffc  in 
Baptifme.  My  Lords  Grace  was  aniwe- 
ring ;  Nay, iayth  his  My e%,  let  me  alone 
,"  with  him.  Sir,faith  the  iQng,  you  fliew 
/*^your  ielfe  an  uncharitable  man,  wee 
'*  have  here  taken  paines,  and  in  the  end 
*^  have  concluded  of  an  uaitre,and  unifor- 
^^mity,  and  you  forfooth,  muft  prcferrc 
"  the  Credits  of  a  few  private  men,  before 


before  the  J^nzs  Majesty,  pp 

''the  gcnerall  peace  of  the  Church :  this  is 
^'juft  the  Scotifli  Argument  ,•  for  when 
^^  stnv  thins  was  there  concluded,  which 
^^  difliked  fome  humorS;,|the  onely  reaibn , 
'^  why  they  w^ould  not  obey,waS;,it  flood 
'^  not  with  their  credits  to  yeeld,having  Co 
^^  long  time  been  of  the  contrary  opinion; 
^^  I  will  none  of  that^laith  the  t\jn^  y  and 
^^  therefore  ,  either  let  them  conforme 
"  themfelves ,  and  that  fhortly ,  or  they 
^^  fliail  heare  of  it.  My  Lord  (jcill  put  his 
Majefly  in  minde  ,  of  a  word  his /Sg;/;^ 
mjfe  had  uftd  the  day  before,  namely^  of 
Ambling  Communions  ,  frying  ,  that 
the  indecency  thereof ,  was  very  offen- 
five  ^  and  had  driven  many  from   the 
Church  :  And  here  M.  chatter  ton  was 
told  of  fitting  Communions  in  Emanti=> 
W/Colledge;  which  he  (aid  was  fo  ,  by 
rcafbn  of  the  (eats,  (b  placed  as  they  be  . 
yet,that  they  had  (bme  kneeling  al(b. 

Finally  they  joyntly  promiled  ,  to  bee 
quiet  and  obedient,  now  they  knew  it  to 
be  the  Kings  mindc;,  to  have  it  fo.   His 

P  Majejiies 

io6  Thefumme  of  the  Conference 

MajeBies  gracious  conclufion  was  Co 
piercing  ,  as  that  it  fetched  teares  from 
fome  on  both  fides.  My  Lord  of  London 
ended  all-in  the  name  of  the  whole  com- 
pany ;,  w^ith  a  Thank(giving  unto  God 
for  his  MajeBy  ,  and  a  Prayer  for  the 
health  and  prolperity  of  his  Highneffe, 
our  gracious  Queene,  the  young  Prince, 
and  all  their  Royall  iffue. 

His  Majefly  departed  into  the  inner 
Chamber  ;  all  the  Lords  prelently  went 
to  the  Councell  Chamber  ,  to  appoint 
Commisfioners ,  for  the  fevcrall  matters 
before  referred. 


The  Preface. 

MAn^cofieswereftnt  we,  xthemf  [ome  mr([o 
jhamdejly mtrue^^S^  I  ajjufeyoufo  ob[ccene,that 
I  think f  his  Majeftyirouldhave  been  as  much  emended 
with  me  for  Printing,^^  vpith  the  Authors  for  difper- 
fiDg  thtmJ  have  chojenthereofthe  if  eft  andclunlieji^ 
frhicb  dae  here-rnderfallom, 

I  give  HO  cenfure^nejther  how  I  the  J>2fperfers^  In 
the  Reader  conferre  andjiidge.V^t  dum  eft  judex 


The  fir ji  Copy, 

January   15.  160$, 

Ir,  I  cannot  conccale  from 
yai  the  good  fiicccfilcf, 
which  it  hath  pleafed  God 
to  fend  us,  by  the  Confe- 
rtence  ,  which  his  Majefty 
had  with  the  Bifliops  at 
the  Court.  There  appeared 
none  but  the  Bifhops  , 
which  were  with  the  King  above  three  houres.. 
Cant,LondWinA(t\i6,0'fiwto\\.  their  knees,  and 
defiredjthat  all  things  might  remaine  ,  left  the 
Papiftsfhould  thinkewehave  bcenein  an  error. 
The  King  replied,  that  in  ^2.  yceres  corrupti- 
ons might  creepe  in.  He  fpake  of  confirmation, 
private  Baptifme,theCrofre,  Dumbe  miniftery, 
Nonrefidence^the  Courts,wbich  he  promifed  to 
amend5efpecially  he  fpake  bitterly  againft  private 
Baptifme/aying^hehadas  lievean  Apeasawo- 

p  2  man 

The  ^rB  Qopy. 

man  fhould  baptife  bis  childc5&  againfl:  Courts^ 
which  he  laidjhe  would  put  down.The  Lo.  chiefe 
ludice,  and  the  Lord  Keeper  fpake  much  againlt 
ibem,and  the  Lord  Cer/Z/agaiuft  Excommanica- 
tioDs.^by  Lay  men.lVlafter  Deane  of  the  Chappel, 
fpeaking  fomething  to  the  King  in  bis  eare ,  the 
Bifhop  oiLendon  infolently  faid  unto  him,  Do» 
dor  MontAgufyi^dikQ  outjtbat  we  may  heare  you 
and  feeke  not  tocrofle  us.  At  their departurcjthey 
faid^that  if  the  King  fhould  ufe  the  Minifters  in 
fuch  fortjas  they  wrereu{ed,they  would  be  too  in. 
folent^The  King  faid,they  were  his  rubje^s,&  if 
he  would  not  heare  them,thcn  they  had  ]\xi\  caufe 
to  complaine.  The  Bifhops  brought  forth  many 
popifh  aTgumentSjwhich  the  King  very  carneftly 
anfwcred,and  learnedly,  more  then  ten  times  cal- 
ling them  Papifh  arguments ,  and  faid  by  thofe 
reafonsjthey  might  prove  Popcry.The  Bifhop  of 
yp'inchefter  faid ,  that  if  he  tooke  away  private 
Baptifme^he  overthrew  all  Antiquity.  The  Bi.of 
Peterbtrow  brought  forth  a  fooliiTi  xArguracnt, 
with  muchdifgrace  tohimfelfe.The  BiiTiops  ha^ 
ving  taken  Wednefday,  to  confider  of  the  Kings 
fpeech,  the  Minifters  came  to  the  King  on  Mon- 
c^y  atnineof  the  clockc.Honeftmen  about  the 
Court  are  comforted.Conformitansbang  downc 
their  heads  ,  and  the  Biftiops  men  curfe  the  Pu- 

Sic  explicit  prima  dies^ 

I  have 

(Another  {^. 

nUfUl  Have  fent  you  the  declarati- 
on of  the  Conference ,  the 
which  was  in  this  manner  : 
the  fir  ft  day  theBifhopsof 

chefler  ,  making  cariieft  lute, 
-^..^^..«,^oSSa  ti^at  all  things  mtghtftanci 
as  they  did  ,  left  the  Pap'fts  lliould  take  oftence, 
who  might  ray,wc  would  pcrfwadcthem  to  come 
toachurchjhavingerrours  in  it;  and  the  Puritans  ^ 

will  fay^they  have  beene  perfccutcd  long. The  K.  ^ 

anfwered  Jhatthebeft  ftatc  would  gather  corrupt 
tions,&  that  it  was  no  Argument  for  the  to  fay, 
They  would  not  becured  of  the  PoXjbecaiife  they 
had  had  it  jo^yeersihe  concluded  againft  Abfeli:- 
tion  Confirmati5,private  Baptifmc,  thedumbe 
&  fcandalous  Miniftcrs,  Pluralities,  theCourts, 
&the  authority  of  the  Bidiops  by  the  high  Com- 
miffioncrSj&cThefecond  day  the  Minifters  w^re 
convented  before  the  King,  who  anfwered  fearc- 
fully  and  modeftly : the  Bifliop  o^ Lo^o/tbehsL^ 
vedhimfeifeinfolcntly,  faying  thefe  are  Cart^ 
rvr'jghts  Schollers,Schifmatikes,breakers  of  your 
Ma  jefties  laws,you  may  know  them  by  their  Tur- 
ky  gownes  and  filke  Turky  Grogoram :  the  third 
dayjtheymetall,  where  the  King  fpake  much  to 
i«iity,that  they  might  joyne  againft  the  Papifts. 
Allthe  three  dales  the  King  behaved  himfelfead- 
mirabletothc  beholders.,  granting  to  the  Mini- 
fters  their  carneft  requeft,  that  the  Ceremonies  of 

Pj  the 

"X      >^7/